Only 20 presets per filter allowed?

I still think that would be good to have at least 30 or 40 presets as maximun for filter submission instead of the 20 that is now.

Because I have some filters that can show many variations and multiple combinations and with 20 presets is NOT enough to show really all the things that could be done and help the user with many presets examples.

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Morgantao wrote: Oh, and seems the submission wizard actually only renders the first 9 presrets + needed maps. So having 9, 19 or 99 presets on your filter wont change the submission time.

Yes is true, that rising the limit will not change at all the render submission time and will be the same as it is now.

The only reason why I think 50 presets COULD (not saying it nesecerily WOULD) be a problem, is because there's no way to hide or delete the default presets, and there's no way to rearange the presets.
Imagine you make your own presets to a filter that allready has 50 presets... You'll have to scroll way down just to get to your presets.

Still, I'd prefer to have 50 presets for some filters.

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Ghislaine wrote: GF Spirograms v4 is uploaded. It was very hard to to make my choice for the variations. I had to delete 32 variations. I post some more images that you will not find in the previews

Why we have to keep deleting and keeping the filter user with this very limited 20 presets?

If regretably and this would not be possible there is also an alternative

Be able to share and download presets from the filters that you make ?

Could we have a easy way to be able to export/import filter inside Filter Forge so we could share the presets we have created ?

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...the more presets you add, the more pre-rendering you have to wait for during submission...

Nope.
The submition wizard only renders the first 9 presets + 4 map renders (for surface filters).

I am sorry to bring back this thread BUT now that there will be FF 4.0 in development I think that this is a important thing (at least for me) and I would suggest to be able to have at least 30 or 40 factory presets as default and NOT ONLY 20 as it happens now.

Why still limit it to 20 presets?

I understand that would be possibly bad to put a high number, but 30 or 40 is not so much, and would help very much to offer a wider variation of presets on filters that can have many possible results with different settings and combinations.

Sorry for putting this back again but I think that for updating and changing the limit presets fr om 20 to 30 or 40 it does not require any work at all (unless there is some technical reason or any other thing) and would not take any time of developers to make this, just change the lim it from 20 to another value.

And I think this is important for showing better the filters and give more possible options and presets on more complex filters.

This actually is one of those requests that concern the scale of what we do as well. As an author, I tend to develop filters which work with the next-variant button, now sometimes this isn't the case but in many cases I try to work with the next-variant button. By being able to randomize results in a clear, consistant, designer-approachable manner the wealth of applicable results increases. So filters, ideally should have meaningful controls which don't restrict the user's ability to change a specific property or on the opposite end, not be too restrictive. Given that results would be expectable and wouldn't betray the end-user's needs or wants. So given that, if the results are driven in such a manner, you basically have 30,000+ presets already at your finger tips, you just have to stop and choose one.

Now that is the case with ideal conditions. Most cases filters submitted to the library may not work in favor of the end-user's needs. This is part because interests are different with every author and some filters structurally just don't work with the next-variant button. In this case it's definitely a good choice to have a lot of preset options as "starting points" for new designs to emerge. Having said that given at the scale of what we do, it may partially be necessary to increase numbers of presets as a logical stance, but it becomes hugely unnecessary after a certain number, I don't know what that number is but I don't care if there are slots for 50 presets, and I personally won't use that many and I'd leave it open for the users to fill that gap up. In simple terms I'm saying, "Larger the number, the more confusing but it wouldn't make a huge deal out of it. I'd welcome it."

Remember, if its a small filter with 3 controls, there's almost no point of having 50 presets for that unless those 3 controls provides you with everything in the world. Where a filter with 20+ controls may require a large amount of presets to get the user started on something.

The last thing I want to comment on this is that people just blatantly use presets "as-is" and call the result "their work." Now I can't change that and I won't bother, but if you have 50 presets ready to go and each are pretty original and you put a lot of effort into developing nice-looking presets, you're basically giving away 50 pieces of your own work unless you intend that.

I know presets are "a small thing" and I don't care what happens next. But I just wanted to give people a bit of word on the matter since presets are important to have since they do show off the flowery-goodness of the filter. Those are just some of the things I thought of as an author when I began reading through the forum. Overall, it's not a bad suggestion. *shrug*

I mean I don't think it's an issue just because they increase numbers to 50 open slots. It won't affect our FilterForging experience, won't change the editing process as much, overall it won't make much difference anywhere. It'll make a difference for SOME people of course but I honestly rarely see people who manage to fill up 20 preset slots

My bet at that reason:

Makes ffxml files larger and harder to handle.

And only 5% (my predicted number) of the user filters submitted to the library exhibit more than 15 presets. Where most filters have a magic preset count of 6 ~ 9 presets, enough to explain most of the filter's functionality and provide stepping stones for custom appearances.



Not against the idea here! Just placing my bets on the reason!

[Edit: Just some personal rant] Personally, it's come to my attention that some times users just render presets as-is. I've seen preset renders just as they are on stock websites (and we've kinda discussed that on these forums as well.) The thing is, a larger preset count just seem like giving away more and more of what I already spent hours on. I'd rather have people still press the next-variant button and get something completely different from what I have. But you never know who's on the other end of the line. If only everybody followed similar philosophies....

To me, the debate inside of me isn't about having more slots for presets. Yeah, we can have 200 slots for all that matters. I wouldn't care. But my debate is whether if I should give away so much more if I'm ever submitting stuff. It always seems like the magic number 9 works with a well designed filter.

It's just my personal belief filters which are well designed don't need more than 9 presets because the sliders/switches already behave, and are tamable, manageable, and easily understood.

So I'm just throwing that out there. Not trying to debunk any thought. It's just what I've learned over these years of playing with this program and how people behave online. Presets do play some role in the behavior. Some thoughts run deeper than how suggestions pan out.

[end of rant]

[whatever... removed this commentary because I'm dragging stuff on.]

Silly me... why am I writing here.

well I just made my bets. I really don't care about reasons.

Extra leg room? I'll gladly take it.

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Skybase Those are complex in terms of the number of nodes, but not necessary complex in terms of construction given a lot of the "features" are tacked on end to end

For me a complex filter is one that does not have one clear and easy result as it happens with most of the Texture filters, and that you can make many multiple results and they are different or very different depending on settings, and also may be complex because has many settings and controls to customize and so it will probably give more possible results and options.

I will continue answering more, later

SpaceRay, you know, sometimes you get no response because people just don't want it discussed over and over again.

Well, ok: Filter Forge 4.0 will have the same limit of 20 presets. Take it easy, this is the natural course of things, just put up with it.

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GMM SpaceRay, you know, sometimes you get no response because people just don't want it discussed over and over again.

Well, sorry about this, and I agree that other persons may not be interested to answer, but in this case the only persons that can really answer is fr om FF Inc. and in 2 years there has NOT been any news and answer fr om you, Vladimir or any other from FF, so I wanted to know what was happening.

The very easy way to stop this and do not keep a thread bump, is to just say YES, NO, or MAYBE.

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GMM Well, ok: Filter Forge 4.0 will have the same lim it of 20 presets. Take it easy, this is the natural course of things, just put up with it.

I mean that THIS is what I wanted to know, and then I will not keep asking anymore.

Was it SO DIFFICULT to tell this? 2 years waiting for a simple yes or no

Thanks very much for answering and letting us know that FF 4.0 will keep the same 20 presets, so there is no more discussion and debate about this, at least from me.

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Crapadilla Dangit! I was kinda hoping the lim it would go down to 9

oh yes, how naughty you are yes reduce it to 9 instead