Should we make a strike and do not buy the upgrade to 3.0 IF SAME UI ?

As I have not seen any news that The Filter Forge (FF) User Interface (UI) is going to be changed in FF 3.0 and we should probably wait one year more (or even more) until FF 4.0, I think that we could make a strike and do not buy or upgrade to FF 3.0 IF the UI is still the same fixed and blocked as is now in FF 2.0 and FF 3.0 Beta.

FF users have been asking for a change in UI since 2006 and in 2011 is still the same and have not changed the UI as customers have asked and suggested.

I have already put a thread about this here

http://filterforge.com/forum/read.php?FID=9&TID=8750

QUOTE]Hippotizer wrote:
You want to attract the PROFESSIONIAL users, don't you?

btw, seems that i belong to the professional user[/QUOTE]

Very well said Hippotizer, I think that Vladimir and the FF team should think that this software is going to be used mainly by PROFESSIONALS and now in 2011 most of the professional sofware have very flexible, user customizable, resizable and dockable user interfaces, and separated windows panes, and FF still keeps the user interface in one block.

WILL PROFESSIONALS LOVE FF THIS WAY when most or any other professional software has been upgraded and updated the user interface in 2011 and is very customizable and configurable ??

WHY I AM ASKING FOR A "STRIKE" ON FF 3.0 ??

Because Filter Forge is an excellent, innovative, creative and very good software and really love all the things that can be done with it, and really love all the filters that have been made by so many expert users of FF that are very creative and have so many wonderful ideas, BUT is really a pity that all this beauty is let down by a old and blocked User interface that has not been upgrades and updated in the same way as other graphic companies have done.

I have just received two emails fr om two software companies that have upgraded and modified every single option in the interface and now have separated every single window and can be resizable, configurable and customizable in every possible way, and you can enlarge, switch on and off every window or panel, and even some have sliding or rollover panels.

And when resizing the content can get bigger and be better seen, and also this way you can choose wh ere you want to put the tools and windows and choose how to work and optimize the workspace and get a better workflow, and so you can do things in less time.

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Why nearly every other software I know for professionals and even not professionals have a much better user interface in 2011 and Filter Forge 3.0 will still keep the same User Interface of FF 2.0 ?

Yes, Redcap, you are right, I think is probably much better to use Boycott than strike.

And I am suggesting for this boycott only because this user interface (UI) improvements and changes has been requested since 2006 and in 2011 there is no news that this are going to happen, so the FF team are not listening to what the user wants, at least in this topic (as they listen right with other things) and I do not understand how is possible that when most other companies have changed their UI, Filter Forge have not changed in 5 years to what the FF user wants and requests.

Of course that the FF team, will not put and include in FF ALL what the FF user wants and requests because probably is not possible and they must decide what to include and could be useful and interesting and programmed into the core program and what not to include

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how is not buying the product going to help the product become better?

If you keep buying it whatever decides the software company you are agreeing with the company, and I do not think that it will help not buying, but will make FF team think that if they are going to release a new version they must offer important things that should be worth upgrading and not just a few features more, although interesting perhaps are not enogh to convince you to upgrade, but if you making things like the user interface or render speed much better than the previous version

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I hate it when others tell me what to do with my money.

I totally agree with you, and I also hate when others tell what to do.

I am sorry, BUT I am NOT telling you what to do with your money. Did I threaten you or obligate you NOT to buy FF 3.0. Will I harm you if you buy FF 3.0. NONE, I will never tell you what to do with your money and with your life because IT´S YOUR DECISION AND IT´S UP TO YOU.

I am ONLY SUGGESTING that anyone that would like that the User Interface (UI) of this wonderful application could be changed with the MANY suggestion made by many FF users, perhaps want and agree not buy or upgrade to 3.0 UNTIL THE UI IS CHANGED, but always is his own choice.

It´s up to you to decide if you want or not, and if you agree or not, I am not a leader searching for followers in any way.

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If FF is really that bad because of their UI I won't buy it, but not because someone else tells me not too... rather because it really is that bad.

Absolutely true and totally agree with this, as said you decide if you think that something is bad from you own point of view or if you like something or not, and you decide by yourself and not becasue someone tells you not buy it because it is bad, BECAUSE Not everyone is the same, and perhaps what for you is good is bad for another person and viceversa. So if you think is good and like it very much you are totally free to do whatever you want, who is forcing you to do the opposite?

And true that if it FF 3.0 is really bad it will be sold much less than if it was a very good and interesting thing to upgrade.

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Spaceray, enjoy not buying Filter Forge if you want to... but if your complaint really has validity to it, people will boycott the product with or without you. Trying to rally people to boycott something is similar in my mind of government trying to pick winners and losers. The free market will decide whether or not FF will fail or succeed, not one lone protester

Of course that if what I say is valid and true to SOME people that could agree and me could not buy FF 3.0, and of course with me or without me, I am not trying or forcing anyone to boycott FF 3.0, and I am not going to campaign and lie to be able to get my point like government does.

Filter Forge is sold in a FREE market as you say and is totally free to decide each one if he wants to buy it or not, I do not want to influence directly in that.

As said I am only suggesting this and not forcing and obligating anyone

AM I THE ONLY PROTESTER ?

If you have read the threads I have put in my other tread about this, you will see that I am NOT the only one that wants to change the User interface. It would be stupid to ask for a boycott if I am alone.

And of course that FF team would not hear me at all if I am alone.

Well, I do not think anyone is going to boycott this program...but I do share alot of frustration over what they are doing with this program...or more appropriately, what they are not doing with this program... Addressing the GUI is definitely an issue...but not one of the major ones, IMO... For example...asbsolutely no author incentives (other than to keep your quality works to yourself)...program rewards are all but exhausted except for more advanced works (which FF is not getting)...the mean quality of the filter library is getting literally burried in sub-op variant submissions (the "Filtermeister Syndrome")...etc, etc, etc...

Everything in V2 and V3 (with the exception of the Bomber components) has all been "already-in-the-box" stuff, which in my opinion, has not warranted any major version change beyond V1.XXX... To me, it looks like FF did as little as possible to try and substantiate major version changes for the sake of generating sales...

IMO, this is why you are not seeing alot of obvious needed improvements...because they do not improve the bottom line (sales) like breaking into new platforms...which seems to be where they are putting 99% of their efforts...

The software is very good...probably the program that I use the most...and still quite usable with the GUI inconveniences...

DISCLAIMER: I'm harsh on FF sometimes...only because I want this program to succeed, grow, and be enhanced...for my own selfish usage of it...

...

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StevieJ wrote: Everything in V2 and V3 (with the exception of the Bomber components) has all been "already-in-the-box" stuff, which in my opinion, has not warranted any major version change beyond V1.XXX... To me, it looks like FF did as little as possible to try and substantiate major version changes for the sake of generating sales...

Not to turn this into a flame war, but I totally disagree with the above.

Consider the support for Multiple Images we introduced in FF3.0. No matter how hard you redesign the existing UI or rearrange existing components or tweak existing sliders, you can't get multiple source images into Filter Forge. You just can't. This is impossible to implement using any pre-existing functionality -- which is precisely why it was included into FF3.0.

Similarly, no matter how hard you tweak or rearrange existing components, sliders, options or UI, you can't combine all that to get a Lua script executed in Filter Forge. Again, that was a unique feature which is impossible to implement using any "already-in-the-box" functionality.

The distinction I'm talking about is "convenience features" which can be implemented / circumvented / worked around given existing functionality vs. "ability-expanding features" which are truly new and can't be implemented on existing stuff. I strongly prefer the latter kind.

This is a dilemma. We could spend a couple of years on rewriting the interface to be more convenient, OR we can spend the same two years introducing features that expand image-generation abilities of FF (like Bombers, Lua scripts, Multiple Images or Bezier Curves).

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Sphinx. wrote: Vlad, what about the script editor? Any chance you'll add an editor in separate window?

In FF3.0, no. Resizable to the max, yes, in the next beta.

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StevieJ wrote: GUI screen size options...which I thought was a less-complicated thing nowadays with MSVS

We don't use MSVS GUI design tools because we don't use Microsoft class libraries and frameworks, which, in turn, is because they aren't cross-platform -- they cannot produce Mac GUI (Cocoa or Carbon). I guess we could have went with a cross-patform GUI framework like QT, but back in 2002 QT seemed to us like a less viable option than a custom-made framework.

(Actually, at some point during the development of v2.0, I literally swore to NEVER EVER EVER again develop a native cross-platform GUI.)

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Should we make a strike and do not buy the upgrade to 3.0 IF SAME UI ?

No!

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Vladimir Golovin wrote: Resizable to the max, yes, in the next beta.

Finally!