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KGtheway2B
KGtheway2B

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I know there's no batch rendering in FF, but I would really love the ability to just set my pc to a task and come back a couple hours later and have a bunch of textures made up. Is there a way I can open ff multiple times and set each instance to the task of rendering out a filter?
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CFandM
ForgeSmith

Posts: 4761
Filters: 266
Nope none as far as I can tell...FF will tell you that it is already running.... smile:| smile:)
Stupid things happen to computers for stupid reasons at stupid times!
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jffe
Posts: 2869
Filters: 90
Considering that when FF is running/rendering, it's taking about 98% of your cpu, having 2 open and rendering would require 196% of your cpu, give or take, so once ya solve that problem, it should be no sweat. smile:p Really though, I hope they get on the ball with the pc version soon, especially after that last update failed to do much of anything that I can tell. There's no way that batch rendering could take all that long to implement, I mean we're not talking about anything major, just a few things like that and the folder arrangements being customizable, mostly geeky stuff, unglamorous and thusly way easier to code. We're all still waiting FF. smile:D

jffe
Filter Forger
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Kraellin
Kraellin

Posts: 12749
Filters: 99
or, you could do like volde and buy 21 computers and 21 FF licenses... or was it 23?
If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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KGtheway2B
KGtheway2B

Posts: 660
Filters: 34
I've actually thought of going into our campus computer lab at like 2:00 AM (its open 24 hours) installing ff on a bunch of computers and just doing rounds. I could get quite a renderfarm going. I figure about 8 pc's and I'd reach almost non-stop image creation.

Isn't there some sort of algorithm that the FF guys use to render the shots on the website? I'd love to be able to "submit" filters to my own private server and have a bunch of clickable images ready with plain normal and diffuse maps ready. I doubt it's something they would be willing to make open source, but perhaps they could give some hints? smile:)
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onyXMaster
Filter Forge, Inc.
Posts: 350
As jffe correctly mentioned, there's no next to no reason to run multiple rendering copies of FF -- if it would be possible, the total rendering time will be larger than a sequential rendering.

I agree that batch rendering would be a good addition to FF. Currently, the only "batch rendering" support you can get is Actions support in Photoshop, but that's very limited (you still need to apply complete filter at least once and then you're limited to applying the same filter to different sources).

About server side software -- well, I don't think it's a secret, so I'll tell you. The Filter Forge core (image loading/saving, filter loading/saving, components implementation, filter rendering, library management, i.e. everything except the GUI) supports different platforms (win32/x86, Linux/x86, FreeBSD/x86, MacOSX/ppc, MacOSX/i386) and forms (executables, static or dynamic/shared libraries). So, there's a DLL version of it, along with a thin (mainly) C# layer to allow us to perform rendering functions from within any .NET application. And Filter Forge library backend is written in C# plus ASP.NET for web services (to which Filter Forge connects to check for updates, submit filters, etc.). This backend also performs rendering (along with preset enumeration, randomization, normal/bump/etc. map generation and other stuff).

So yes, there IS an FF server that is capable of multithreaded rendering of filters and their presets with different antialiasing and stuff along with saving to different formats, with C, C++ and C# APIs.

And no, there ISN'T any legal way you can get your hands on it, I'm afraid this part of FF isn't going to be released to the public at all.
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KGtheway2B
KGtheway2B

Posts: 660
Filters: 34
Haha that's fine, I didn't think it would be shareable, but figured it couldn't hurt to ask. As far as the multiple instances, I didn't really care about time efficiency and realize that the cpu would be split amongst the instances, I just wanted to be able to 'set it and forget it' then come back hours (days?) later and have a grip of stuff done. Thanks for the interesting info about the serverside stuff, you guys seem well prepared for the future, with all your OS compatibility and such.

Some suggestions for the batch process if you fellas ever decide to do it would be a queue style deal. I envision a setup where you pick a filter, adjust the settings (with the reduced size live preview exactly as it is now) and instead of clicking "save" you click "add to queue". Once the queue has been activated you can click on each task and define which maps you want (normal, off, diffuse etc) and the base name of the task. Then when you're ready to let it start you can just click "go" and it runs down the queue list. The suffix/prefix for the different maps (normal diffuse etc) could be custom and settable in an options menu somewhere.
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jffe
Posts: 2869
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Quote
KGtheway2B wrote:
Once the queue has been activated you can click on each task and define which maps you want (normal, off, diffuse etc) and the base name of the task. Then when you're ready to let it start you can just click "go" and it runs down the queue list.


----That sounds great. But for right now I'd settle for one filter map setting at a time, with a *render all presets* feature, at least for a small step in the right direction eh. smile:D

jffe
Filter Forger
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onyXMaster
Filter Forge, Inc.
Posts: 350
KGtheway2B: I had a similar set of ideas about this when I thought about it. There even was an idea to add "poor's man batching" in the form of "Dummy Apply" button when under Photoshop, that will record the action to Photoshop, but won't apply the filter itself, so filter will be applied only when you play back the action smile:)

Yes, the "queue" model appears to be good since it's easy to understand and doesn't require too much work (unless we're doing animation, then we'll need a way to automate control changes, but thats an entirely different story).
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Vladimir Golovin
Administrator
Posts: 3446
Filters: 55
Quote
KGtheway2B wrote:
I know there's no batch rendering in FF


We're planning to release a command-line renderer that accepts an XML where you can describe multiple rendering jobs. The renderer is ready and is being used internally, but it needs some extra productization (a readme file / help entry etc.). I've added it to our short-term plan, so hopefully it will be out in one of the upcoming updates.
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
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Quote
Vladimir Golovin wrote:
We're planning to release a command-line renderer that accepts an XML where you can describe multiple rendering jobs. The renderer is ready and is being used internally, but it needs some extra productization (a readme file / help entry etc.). I've added it to our short-term plan, so hopefully it will be out in one of the upcoming updates.


Awesome!!! smile:loveff: smile:loveff: smile:loveff:
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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Igor Lorents
Filter Forge, Inc.
Posts: 39
Also I would like to mention that command-line renderer is available on MacOSX platform, both ppc and i386 versions. But we have some problems with its "productization". So I'm affraid it cannot be public yet.
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Kraellin
Kraellin

Posts: 12749
Filters: 99
this is sounding good. i dont use a lot of batch processing, so, i'm pretty much a newbie here. could someone break this down as to how it would work in real world terms and what you could do with it? for instance, could it be set up to load a certain filter and then a certain preset and render and save and then increment one slider a certain amount, render and save and keep going like that or am i thinking in the wrong terms here?
If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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onyXMaster
Filter Forge, Inc.
Posts: 350
Craig, you will write an XML file containing batch jobs, like:
a) open filter "Test"
b) render preset #3, save it to PNG file named "Test-3.png", 16-bit per channel, maximum compression
c) render preset #5, save it to Windows bitmap file "Test-5.bmp", 8-bit per pixel, flipped row order
d) open filter "Test2"
...
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ronviers
lighter/generalist

Posts: 4456
Filters: 35
Quote
KGtheway2B wrote:
I would really love the ability to just set my pc to a task and come back a couple hours later and have a bunch of textures made up.

What about something like this? It is crude but may have a place. The idea being that you paste in up to nine different filters, or paste the same filter up to nine times in various states, then plug them into where the image now is and render them all at once. This could also work by plugging in the various surface maps to each layer. It would mean bumping up the overall image resolution then chopping it up later.
Anyway, let me know what you thing.


Batch_Animate demo a.ffxml
@ronviers
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ronviers
lighter/generalist

Posts: 4456
Filters: 35
By way of demonstration here is the snippet configured with the five surface maps of my orb filter and a simple filter in four different states. If the resolution were increased to 65536x65536 it would result in the individual images having a resolution of 21845x21845 which may be enough for some applications.
It would not have to stay at 9 images it could be increased or decreased by squared numbers.


Batch_Animate demo b.ffxml
@ronviers
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ronviers
lighter/generalist

Posts: 4456
Filters: 35
sample

@ronviers
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Kraellin
Kraellin

Posts: 12749
Filters: 99
thanks, onyx! that is pretty much what i thought. just one last question; will it allow for individual slider control, also? like 'slider 1 > set 1' then 'slider 1 > set 2', etc for incrementing a given slider 1 whole or decimal place? or better yet, 'slider 1 > set 1' 'slider 1 inc 1' where 'inc' is increment and 'dec' is decrement?

if it can, this would be great for doing .gif animation frames. i could just run off a batch and take the frames into psp's animation shop and collate into a .gif animation in no time.
If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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Igor Lorents
Filter Forge, Inc.
Posts: 39
Craig, no it wouldn't. You'll be able to specify a preset index only for the filter you would like to render.
This is how the solution for your situation might look like: you make a preset per each frame you would like to render for your gif animation and then render all of them as a batch in the way onyXMaster wrote about.
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Kraellin
Kraellin

Posts: 12749
Filters: 99
ok, just wanted to clarify that. thanks, igor.
If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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jffe
Posts: 2869
Filters: 90
So how long for basic batch rendering, like are we talking April sometime with the next little update ? smile:hammer: smile:p

jffe
Filter Forger
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