"I just can't get no respect ..."

I am not speaking of myself, but rather for other filter forgers whose filters have been ransaced as of late without any credit. I am not going to name names but it is pretty obvious that there is a relatively new filter forger who is just taking old HU filters and adding one or two more controls to the filter and submitting them as their own.

I don't know about the rest of the comunnity, but this bugs me; so if you are currently adding just one or two controls to others filters; please, at least have the dignity to add in your filter description: "this filter comes from the work of x, or I was influenced strongly by such a such filter.

Just a thought, have a great day

I totally agree with you.... I'm using FF for about 2 months and, especially now, it seem to see a fotocopy of older filters.... or something with one or two simple variations of older filters.
Personally, when I started to use FF, I simply put this control, this adjustmen ecc ecc and then I create a simply filter....but , as time passes and learning about FF, I tried to do something totally different. Now I think that my best filters are trichloroethylene_bath , Italian_marble and Soul Elevation . For this filters I have spent so much time and for this I really love them.Many others filters I have made.... but I don't have submitted cause they were very similar to other...

But I understand that, for the politics of FF, this will be free only if you have high rank and, onestly, one month of free use is very small time for create something original. And now, with more than 3200 filters (plus another 20000 variations!) is difficult to find and create something different and original.
Actually I have something original in progress...but, damn, from yesterday I'm in holiday, so I can't use FF 'cause it is installed only in my pc in the ...office! (yes...at home I use mac...) So for 3 weeks I can't use FF and...when I will return at office... I have only the last week until trial expired!!
I know that for the admins of FF is difficult to remember all filters create...so.... I think that, like Persidio wrote, a simple thanks to... will be the right thing when someone copy an older filters...

BYE,
davidhyno


ps: sorry for my english...

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jffe wrote: ----If you haven't already, use the contact form on the site here, and request a trial extension. Smile jffe

I have asked for it one month ago and I don't know if they will give another extension.....

Yeah it bugs me also, if i ever modify a filter i make sure it looks totally different, i think that the ability to view the structures of other filters and also modify them however is good but i think that if re-done they need to be heavily modified and as you say not just 1 or 2 new controls. And also for the fact that anyone can do that and its a waste of the filter library and annoying getting loads of similar filters.

I did notice something like this with "Burninator Remixed" by uuk. This was probably rather innocent, as the title did give credit to "Burninator" -- however since there are over 3000 filters now, a lot of people may not know of the original filter, so to some it may not be obvious what was getting remixed.


So to uuk, if you're reading this thread:
Keep up the creativity and (IMO) feel free to remix old filters. ...But if you do "remix", I think it would be considerate if you somehow named the original filter's author in the filter description too.
(BTW, I didn't mean to imply that you're one of the people Redcap was talking about. I don't know who he was talking about and actually haven't noticed much of a problem -- probably since I haven't had much time to explore recent filters...)

I looked at the new filters today and got a little frustrated, because of the level to which filters are being high-jacked. I am not going to name names because it is so obvious but do you think it would be appropriate to give a comment on their filter saying, "Give Uberzev Credit for using his filter to create this one" or "Give Richard Bartlett Credit for using their filter to creat this one", "For crying out loud give StevieJ credit for using his filter", and "please please please don't think that we don't notice when you use one of Kraellins filters, so please give him credit."

Just copying and pasting my comment regarding this from another thread (as its more relevant here)

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I think the big problem here is that there is an ongoing competition with regards to people being able to get a copy of FF for free if they have several HU filters. For this reason people can (and with good reason) be a bit protective over what they produce as a filter here. Obviously this is not an issue to filter forge as a company because all that matters to them is that this software is being used and growing in popularity. So this sets up two dynamics that are not sharing completely the same goal. Sure everyone wants filterforge to grow, but also the individual creator here would like to get the benefits of their work in the way of High Usage filters. This potential for getting a high usage rank is greatly hampered when someone puts out a filter using their creative base, and putting it as a new release. Alot of new people to the site will probably not dig too deep to find the original filter, and if there is a cheap knock-off that does somethign similar, that may be good enough for what they need, and then the chance for the original filter to get another notch towards the HU is lost. Now that I have my 3 HU filters, I am not that protective over what I submit here, but I would still like to get more HU, so I can have this working on both my computers instead of just my home machine....and if someone knocks off something I already have growing in popularity, and really does nothing to improve on it...then it does get annoying....and if someone is doing that repeatedly, then their tactics really need to be looked at.

Rawn

Hi Rawn~

I think it's more a matter of principle and basic human nature. If you take something without asking it's stealing. That simple. And if you do take something acknowledgment is good. Basic human nature stuff. I don't mind anyone using my filters as a base as long as credit it given, so for me I know it not competition driven when I ask for credit. I think everyone is in agreement... no one has a problem with anyone using their filter as a base to create with, as long as credit is given. ((It's a morality issue)). Has to do with integrity. I don't do it to other people and I don't expect it done to me. I personally would never use anyones filter and not give credit. Period.

And let's face it they can create and learn from a filter, they don't have to load it in the Library and claim it as their own work. Whether or not it resembles the original or not.

The filters in the library are not snippets,,, there is a whole library category for snippets and that's where the newbies should be working from. But instead they pull the library filters.. use them as a snippet and not give credit... And... the protocol with snippets is that you have to give credit to the snippet artist from what I understand.. but anyone can take my filter and use as a snippet and not give credit? That's just wrong...

Honestly I don't mind my filters being used as a base 'only' when credit is given. If credit is not given,,, it silently pisses me off~

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Redcap, Maybe you should name names, so that the people who are doing this will understand it's not exceptable.

The people who do this make sure it's very well hidden. It's not a matter of having to prove it's your filter.. just get these newbies on snippets. ((And also this would be confrontational... most people including myself don't want confrontation unless we have to... confrontation embarrases the other person and makes you look like the bad guy for having 'ratted them out' or 'pointed them out', or 'singled them out',,, which only leads to arguments and bad feelings)).

I've never used a snippet and never used anyones filters but my own to create with... thinking of making a few filters with snippets to promote the snippets. And maybe that's what we need to do... let the newbies know that it's not okay to use the 'filters' as snippets.. that's what snippets are for.

Right now the newbies are taking Library filters because they have to give credit for using a snippet but not someones filter.

That's all I have to say on it~

P.S. And... it would help our snippet artists if the newbies (and others) went to their snippets... think about it... (The reason they use that filter is because they like the filter better then a snippet... then they need to give credit for using it to create with when they load in the Library... whether or not it resembles the original because they used the base creative intelligence.) If not... it's stealing, plain and simple.

Rawn Quote:

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personally dont care at all if someone doesnt credit me in their filter if they use something of mine in its creation. The only place I really care about credit is with regards to the competition...and that is because I have a goal there which I would like to achive. So if someone unscroupulously affects my ability to reach that goal, I get annoyed.

Well for you it's about competition.

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The components of this software are made available by the creators of the software to be used and shared and there are no restrictions at all that way....and the creators of the software are the ones who "create the rules" as to how a thing can be used.

Used, shared and learned from,,, does not include taking the copy you learned from and claiming it as your own in the library without giving credit where credit is due.

If you point out a filter to the staff that has copied your filter they will remove it. Clearly you fudged a viewpoint of Filger Forge for your own post.

Even snippet artists want credit for their work.

It seems some are tyring to build a world within FF where it is okay to steal others works without giving credit. Maybe an oasis from the web where you have to give credit. All my filters coming out of the gate now have notices on them,,, those notices also include that it goes for 'all' my filters. (And that includes my older ones).

Because it is okay with you that your filters are used as a base,,, morally,,, does not mean it's okay with myself or others. Make it known that it's morally okay with you and let others head to your filters... I do ask that they stay away from mine unless they are prepared to give me credit for using the intelligence of the base whether or not it looks like the original.

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Rawn (RawArt) wrote: But I also do know that in the rules that FF set out for this competition, that such things are allowable, even if they are in poor taste and doesnt sit well with my own personal moralities...but thats just the nature of this game.

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Persidio Quote: If you point out a filter to the staff that has copied your filter they will remove it. Clearly you fudged a viewpoint of Filger Forge for your own post.

Well we know where we stand so let's just make a pact to get back to our filters now.

Btw... luv the thread you started to show off some of our lesser known filters.

LMAO Steve!

This is my first post here. I am currently coming to terms with using the Filter Forge trial version and plan on buying the Pro version. I'd like to offer some comments and observations.

My perspective is varied. I have been a sign maker and a commercial user of computer graphics since 1983. I am also a developer, publisher, and marketer of digital art, clipart and stock photography. We market our art through three websites, a telemarketer and other methods. Much of our art is licensed from other artists who receive continuing royalties as sales occur. We also operate a successful, high traffic forum for professional sign companies and newcomers seeking to join their ranks. I am a constant advocate for intellectual property rights in an industry decimated by software piracy.

The purpose of this post should not be taken as a trolling effort on my part. That is the furthest thing from my mind.

Now the comments and observations:

While I emphasize with Redcap's concerns, they are minor as compared to other concerns some here may not have considered. That being that anyone can purchase Filter Forge and use your intellectual property to create artwork to sell to others ... either as digital images or as finished work without any compensation to you. One publisher I am familiar with in the sign industry released a collection about a year ago with 250 high rez seamless tiles priced at over $400 per copy. As best I can tell he generated the fills with Genetica, many of them in fact, being unaltered presets. While I do not have knowledge of his sales figures, I am able to make an educated guess that he has sold 3,000 to 5,000 copies thus far and is well into seven figures in revenues.

I am a user and supporter of open source as well as commercial software. The business model of Filter Forge is an odd mixture of each which has its strengths and its weaknesses. As a publisher and developer, it is that odd mixture which has attracted me to Filter Forge.

One of the hottest selling products in the sign industry right now is the Eye Candy filters from Alien Skin. Most of the larger distributors are prominently displaying them at their websites and in their catalogs.

It seems to me that the more accomplished among you should be seeking access to the market for your creations and a return on the income created with them. As it stands now, this does not appear to be the case.

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what i want is, do the art, give it to someone else and receive a check

Same here. I have never liked trying to sell my art work. I would like to only have to do the art and let someone who likes doing the selling, sell for me.

*deleted the rest of what I wrote here*

oh, you meant troll as in troll for fish. i read it as troll, the beast or the current popular name for internet sources of trouble.

and yes, i agree; they do have value. my question was/is, to whom and how do we contact them?

Hi Sign Guy.....I just read your posts....

Well, your posts are evidence that FF is compensating its' authors with exposure.....in addition to program rewards. Employers like yourself can come in, see who is talented, and are free to contact any author for employment or commission work....

It makes perfectly good business sense for a company, who has a need for many different filters, to liscence this program and hire a talented author from here.....who would not have to be "in house".....

I would suggest looking at different author's filters and seeing which author is doing the closest work to the types of filters that you need.....then contact them.....

That's true. There's several talented authors here who are kinda in the "struggling artist" mode.....so I tend to think that it's an "Employer's Market" here. I would be surprised if anyone here refused a job offer.....

Hmmmmm.....that's odd. There are authors who already have the lifetime upgrades.....but are still spending alot of time creating and submitting filters with no further attainable rewards. Maybe they are holding out for more money LOL....

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Overloaded with work...yep, I know that feeling LOL It sucks when so many things inspire you that you can only do so many things in one day. It would be fun to come up with filters alot more than I do now, but what can ya do.......*kicks his temporal manipulation device and ponders.."if I had enough time to finish this, then I would be able to make the time to finish it"*

Well Rawn, you've got one filter that goes about halfway to resolving a major issue in the sign industry. If it went all the way, it would probably sell 10,000 copies a year or more and never slow down. I would also point out that it would also then result in a lot of people buying a license for Filter Forge just to be able to use the filter.

Absolutely ... otherwise the value would be too greatly diminished.

Ok Fred, you may have caught my attention

I'll send ya an email.

Well, if an author enters into a contract that prohibits him or her from doing so, then the buyer could sue the author for Breach of Contract for starters.....then proven damages incurred by profit loss, etc.....

Oh, I think that I misunderstood you.....if an author makes a filter and sells it without any contract stipulations to that effect, then nothing prohibits the buyer from doing whatever they want with it......

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one thought on filter selling.....what would keep someone who has bought a particular filter from then being able to submit it here (maybe modifing it a bit), and effectivly killing off the sales you would get?

There are essentially two different opportunities presented by Filter Forge.

One is the creation of good filters from which good images are rendered and the images are then sold. The second opportunity would be to sell commercial quality filters to owners of Filter Forge.

That would require either the participation of the Filter Forge developers to add serial number security to the filters themselves which a license owner to Filter Forge could then add into it when the filter is saved or a third party programmer to create a hack to do the same thing. I would envision something similar to the security protection built into current versions of Adobe Acrobat.