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James
James
Posts: 676
Filters: 46
Hi i was just wondering about the status of the reward system, is someone like me likely to get a free copy or will i need to submit loads more filters, i noticed that theres now loads of filters so im guessing that everyones read about the rewards and is trying to get a free copy, none of my filters have been featured as far as i know but they have had some downloads and i have only submitted the filters i have made that might come in usefull. I have been taking part in forum discussions also so hopefully that will count as something, i guess at the end of the day my point is that i love the program and im hoping i will be on the right track to getting a copy as a reward. So my main question is is there any way to tell if i will be able to get a free copy or not or is it only when a filter is given a reward status, i guess im not at that point yet unfortunately smile:cry:
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Kraellin
Kraellin

Posts: 12749
Filters: 99
james, i cant tell you if you've earned a freebie or not, but there is more data on this from the developers on the forum. do a search. bug reports and good filters are what i remember being the primary criteria, but do a search and see what the FF teams says. this shld give you a better idea.
If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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jffe
Posts: 2869
Filters: 90
None of the editor's picks, or the "popular" filters have a high usage rank. Using that as a measuring tool, I'd say there's no chance in hell anyone's getting a free copy. 1 popular filter gets you 20% off the price of FF, and it takes 3 popular filters to get a free copy. Good luck at this rate. On the other hand, I would have to assume that once the general public gets involved, ie = once FF is for sale and being bought & used, those stats could change rather quickly. And, I'm not aware of FF being "taken away" from any veteran beta testers who are still making filters and posting, who are *active* in other words. It wouldn't make sense for them to cut any of us off really, unless they just hated our filters that much ha-ha smile:D Perhaps an official FF spokesperson can clarify more though, I'm just speculating here.

jffe
Filter Forger
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James
James
Posts: 676
Filters: 46
Thanks for the info, yeah a official FF team member telling us for sure would be helpfull, basically i just want to know if what i have contributed so far is acceptable or if i should make loads more filters. I guess i could release loads of filters like some users have but i would much rather to continue making stuff people might find usefull in there 3d projects ect. smile:)
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
Filters: 65
Quote
James wrote:
or is it only when a filter is given a reward status


Check this.

It seems Vladimir has earned himself lifelong upgrades already... smile:D smile:D smile:D
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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James
James
Posts: 676
Filters: 46
smile:)
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jffe
Posts: 2869
Filters: 90
Vladimir is part of FF though, so that's totally pointless. Those are the only 5 filters that have even gotten one level up ?? Wow, not be a jerk, but what a scam if that's how it's gonna be. smile:?:

jffe
Filter Forger
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
Filters: 65
Quote
jffe wrote:
Vladimir is part of FF though


And that was the point(e) exactly! smile;)

I should have put some more smile:D smile:D smile:D it seems... :afro:
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
Filters: 65
Quote
jffe wrote:
but what a scam if that's how it's gonna be.


Nah, just dig a little in the forums and you will read many things to the contrary. Usage stats and the like have been reset a few times, so they can't be used to determine rewards yet. Editor's Picks on the other hand stuck, and they will count towards rewards if I am not mistaken (and grant a filter higher visibility and thus higher download).

Also, I read somewhere that EVERY beta-tester with a meaningful contribution would get a free copy. That would be a feature request making it on the list, a reported bug that lead to fixing it, and similar things. Don't quote me on this, though.

In conclusion, I don't think the FF team will not reward their beta-testers efforts. Patience my friend...
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
Filters: 65
Found it. Its here

Quote
Vladimir Golovin wrote elsewhere:
Any registered beta tester who reported a bug, helped us reproduce a bug, helped us fix a bug, suggested a feature that made it into the product, or suggested a feature that was included into our development plan, will get a free copy. These conditions aren't rigid, and can be expanded to include other situations and kinds of feedback.


That's pretty official if you ask me.
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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James
James
Posts: 676
Filters: 46
Cool they like my toolbox and module grouping ideas so hopefully im in the running for a free copy smile:D smile:banana: smile:ff:
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jffe
Posts: 2869
Filters: 90
Hmm, well, while I don't think just anyone who posted on the forums or made a filter deserves a free $200-$300 program, the whole earning a free copy is maybe a bit vague in general. I dunno. Hopefully at least some people will end up getting their reward, it just seems a bit hard to track, and thusly kind of weak, but maybe they'll work on it and change it to make more sense and be more specific down the road.

jffe
Filter Forger
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
Filters: 65
Anyone who contributed in a meaningful way to polishing the final product SHOULD be rewarded, be it beta-testers or filter authors. The way I interpret Vladimir's statement, that also appears to be the philosophy of the developers.

Quote
From the Download page:
Active beta testers who provide helpful feedback can get a free copy of Filter Forge as a reward.


Quote
From the Filter Forge front page:
Contributors get Filter Forge for free. [...] Sounds simple but don't expect a giveaway, you will have to earn it.


There it is. We better get back to earning it...

And remember: Since FF is still in beta, so is the Reward Policy System smile:D
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
Filters: 65
Quote
Some more quotes from Vlad:
I'd like to update this list with a new condition: People who expand the common pool of knowledge about Filter Forge also qualify for a free copy.

I don't have a precise definition yet, but here's a preliminary version: Anyone who submits a snippet illustrating a new workflow or technique or shares this technique with other users on these forums can qualify for a free copy.

If I or any of our 'official' posters ever said "I'm adding this to our development plan" in response to any of your feature suggestions, you can count on the free copy

Yes they [Editor's Picks] do [qualify for rewards], but we didn't award any Editor's Picks prior to this update (our Library robot did award a few Editor's Picks due to a bug, but that doesn't count).

--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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jffe
Posts: 2869
Filters: 90
I'm not too worried about it either way, but it would be a little more *inspiring*, if they would post who has earned a free copy ya know, or something. Anyways, I'm sure they'll sort it out at some point.

jffe
Filter Forger
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Vladimir Golovin
Administrator
Posts: 3446
Filters: 55
Quote
Crapadilla wrote:
That's pretty official if you ask me.


Yes, I confirm -- that's official.

Quote
jffe wrote:
Hopefully at least some people will end up getting their reward


That's our goal. The core idea is simple -- if you make Filter Forge better for other users, you deserve a free copy. Period. Maybe the current scheme is not perfect, but we cannot see that yet -- we must launch FF first.

Quote
Crapadilla wrote:
Since FF is still in beta, so is the Reward Policy System


I'm afraid that the reward system will continue to change and adapt long after FF goes out of the beta phase, a kind of 'perpetual beta'. Reward-based systems are hard to implement, and there are many pitfalls. For example, since we have a 'tangible' reward, many people will be compelled to cheat/spam/manipulate the system in order to get the goods. So I predict it will take a long time before we settle on any particular implementation.
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Vladimir Golovin
Administrator
Posts: 3446
Filters: 55
Quote
jffe wrote:
Those are the only 5 filters that have even gotten one level up ??


Yep, that's a problem. FF currently has much more filter 'writers' than filter users, so votes (usage stats submissions) aren't as frequent as we hoped they'd be. We're working on that.
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
Filters: 65
Quote
Vladimir Golovin wrote:
FF currently has much more filter 'writers' than filter users


I'd dare lean out of the window far enough and say that's going to change once the commercial version hits the streets. After all, its logical to mainly have filter writers in the beta crowd, and they are probably saving out their test renders only occasionally, leading to a meager stream of usage stat data. Well, at least that's what I can say of my FF experience and habits. I am just more into creating good recipes than cooking by them at the moment.

Maybe the usage stat collection should be widened to look at time spent 'playing' with a filter without saving renders also (i.e. filter interest).
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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Vladimir Golovin
Administrator
Posts: 3446
Filters: 55
Quote
Crapadilla wrote:
Maybe the usage stat collection should be widened to look at time spent 'playing' with a filter without saving renders also (i.e. filter interest).


We already collect the amount of 'active time the user spent playing with a filter', and have an internal ranking by this parameter (so-called EyeRank), but currently it isn't used in the UsageRank algo.
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
Filters: 65
smile:eek: smile:hammer: smile:D

That's interesting to know. I am wondering what else gets collected... smile;)
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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Vladimir Golovin
Administrator
Posts: 3446
Filters: 55
Quote
Crapadilla wrote:
I am wondering what else gets collected...


Read the EULA smile;)

6.2. Usage Stats and Your Privacy.

The Software contains functionality enabling it to collect information regarding the use of the Filter Library (the “Usage Stats”) and to send it to the Licensor’s servers. The Usage Stats do not contain any personally identifiable information and all information in the Usage Stats is technical or statistical in nature. The Usage Stats information package consists of a) an identifier of your installed copy of the Software; b) a list of recently used Filters sorted by the number of times you used (or “applied”) a particular Filter; c) a list of recently viewed Filters sorted by the total time you spent adjusting the controls of a particular Filter; and d) a list of search terms you used when searching the Filter Library. The Usage Stats are used by the Licensor a) to calculate popularity rankings for Filters in the Filter Library; b) to establish the basis for rewarding the authors of popular Filters; and c) to identify the kinds of filters users wish to see in the Filter Library in order to provide such filters. Furthermore, the Software does not send the Usage Stats to the Licensor’s servers without your permission. The permission is explicitly requested by the Software when the Usage Stats are about to be sent, except when the Software’s configuration is set by you to provide otherwise. The automatic sending of the Usage Stats is turned off by default and is implemented as an opt-in feature, as opposed to opt-out. The Usage Stats are stored in a temporary database on the Licensor’s servers and are erased during the regular Filter Library maintenance procedure. The Licensor reserves the right to retain these data for backup purposes as a part of a full or partial database backup, and will not, except as required by legal process or in connection with the sale of all or substantially all of the assets of the Licensor, transfer, rent, publish, lease, sell or otherwise disclose the Usage Stats to a third party, but the Licensor may publish aggregate information based on the Usage Stats on its website or in other media. If you do not wish to send the Usage Stats to the Licensor’s servers, you shall configure the Software not to send the Usage Stats to the Licensor’s servers. Refer to the Product manual or help files for specific instructions.
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
Filters: 65
Thanks, that was quite illuminating. smile:loveff:
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
Filters: 65
Back to the original topic...

Given the apparent need for comprehensive information regarding the reward program for the beta (and beyond), maybe the developers should create a brief sticky thread collecting 'official' up-to-date statements on this?
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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Zoltan Erdokovy

Posts: 204
Filters: 24
Do we know when the fforge team will tell who won free copies (or discount or a warm handshake)?
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Kraellin
Kraellin

Posts: 12749
Filters: 99
from what i've seen and heard, i'm more concerned that the FF folks make money and not 'give away the cow' smile:)

i also think they've set their release price about $100 too low. when i look at some of the plugins out there selling for $150 or $299 and see what they've got compared to what FF's got, i'd say FF is currently underpriced.
If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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Zoltan Erdokovy

Posts: 204
Filters: 24
I'm a fforge addict all right, so I'll buy it sooner (with discount) or later (for next christmas). smile:)
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Vladimir Golovin
Administrator
Posts: 3446
Filters: 55
Quote
Zoltan Erdokovy wrote:
Do we know when the fforge team will tell who won free copies (or discount or a warm handshake)?


Yep, there will be a public list of beta-testers who won free copies -- we'll publish it before the final release, so that people who didn't win the free copy could order FF at the preorder price ($50 off).
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jffe
Posts: 2869
Filters: 90
I've got a question about the rewards system, and the popular filters. What happens after you get a 4th, or 5th, 6th, etc, "popular" one ? Can you donate that *credit* to another filter maker, so they can be one step closer to getting a free copy of FF ? Not that all of us who make filters automatically deserve a free copy of a $299 program, but on the other hand, without the 1300+ filters, the library wouldn't look as impressive on paper eh. It seems like a good way to encourage the filter makers to keep participating. Just curious if something like that were going to be possible. I'm pretty sure I'll make the 3 limit, in time, but I've made a concentrated effort to make some more normal and maybe "usable" filters, while some folks make snippets and more esoteric/progressive stuff. And it'd be a shame if they dropped off in March, cause they didn't have $299 and they didn't make anything that got technically popular ya know. Maybe a 1/2 credit, like if someone got 9 popular filters, they could then designate another filter maker to get a free copy. I dunno, it just seems like a goodwill kinda thing to encourage the people already involved (and somewhat experienced) to stay involved in the filter making scene is all.

jffe
Filter Forger
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Kraellin
Kraellin

Posts: 12749
Filters: 99
that would be a bit odd, jffe. think about what you're rewarding there.

the only question i have on the rewards program is, updates. once FF is released, and you've won your free copy of version X, does this entitle you to version Y when it gets released or do you need to earn all over again. it's not a big question for me, but more of a curious about.
If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
Filters: 65
Quote
Kraellin wrote:
once FF is released, and you've won your free copy of version X, does this entitle you to version Y when it gets released or do you need to earn all over again.


As it stands, it appears that those who earned their free copy via the beta program will have the same options as everyone else: Either buy the upgrade or nurture 5 filters to High Usage Rank to earn lifetime upgrades.

Then again, there might be a public beta for FF v2.0 as well ...
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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Vladimir Golovin
Administrator
Posts: 3446
Filters: 55
Quote
jffe wrote:
've got a question about the rewards system, and the popular filters. What happens after you get a 4th, or 5th, 6th, etc, "popular" one ?


We're still thinking about this -- we definitely want to encourage skilled authors to make more high-quality filters.
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Vladimir Golovin
Administrator
Posts: 3446
Filters: 55
Quote
Crapadilla wrote:
Then again, there might be a public beta for FF v2.0 as well ...


Yes, all our future betas will be public -- this beta has been extremely successful so far, definitely a 'what went right' thing.
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
Filters: 65
Quote
Vladimir Golovin wrote:
Yes, all our future betas will be public -- this beta has been extremely successful so far, definitely a 'what went right' thing.


Excellent. smile:ff: smile:ff: smile:ff:
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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Kraellin
Kraellin

Posts: 12749
Filters: 99
what, you mean i dont get lifetime upgrades for arguing for more controls in the interface? smile:) (probably lucky i didnt get banned smile:) )

in all honesty, i've been very pleased with FF and with the FF team. the integrity shown in all this has been remarkable and refreshing. i knew a few versions back that if this was the 'normal' American software company, it would have released back then. and that's my biggest objection to most software companies, quick release, a few patches to fix the glaring mistakes and then never a complete follow-up of all that shld have been done. it's almost a cliche' in the industry and quite annoying to the consumer, at least this consumer. so, i applaud the FF team for REALLY making sure they have a great, clean product!

and i've certainly also enjoyed working with all the beta testers! i've learned a lot and stolen even more smile:)

as for future release versions, count me in, if you can stand having me again. you shld see my mock-up for version 8 smile:)
If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
Filters: 65
I'd opt for an extra-comfy cushion, hand-signed by Bella, as a reward for every popular filter beyond the 5th!

smile:D smile;)
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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CFandM
ForgeSmith

Posts: 4761
Filters: 266
Quote
Crapadilla wrote:
I'd opt for an extra-comfy cushion, hand-signed by Bella, as a reward for every popular filter beyond the 5th!


hehe smile:D


Quote
Kraellin wrote:
've been very pleased with FF and with the FF team. the integrity shown in all this has been remarkable and refreshing


Thats why I am still here making some filters. smile:)
Hopefully continue to be here..


Quote
Kraellin wrote:
i applaud the FF team for REALLY making sure they have a great, clean product!


smile:beer: smile:beer: smile:beer:
Stupid things happen to computers for stupid reasons at stupid times!
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Bella
Moderator
Filter Forge, Inc.
Posts: 274
Quote
Crapadilla wrote:
I'd opt for an extra-comfy cushion, hand-signed by Bella, as a reward for every popular filter beyond the 5th!


No problem! smile:D smile:D smile:D
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
Filters: 65
I'm looking forward to that... smile:dgrin: smile:dgrin: smile:dgrin:
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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ssamm
Posts: 364
Filters: 21
I'm pretty new trying out this program, but have already noticed that whenever I start using a library filter, I almost always go in an edit it slightly, so I have sliders and other components for the certain parameters I want
Since the filter gets saved as a new filter, I'm not sure if it will record my usage for the original creator -- unfortunately.

Just to brainstorm an idea: maybe have a way people can vote periodically on their favorite filters? I'm not sure how to avoid cheaters though... (So maybe it's not a good idea.)

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uberzev
not lyftzev

Posts: 1890
Filters: 36
I like that idea ssamm. Something like "digg" would be interesting. Of course there will always be ways to "game" the system.
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
Filters: 65
Quote
ssamm wrote:
maybe have a way people can vote periodically on their favorite filters?


Nice idea. There could be a monthly vote for 'Most Valuable Filter', 'Most Creative Filter', and such. And maybe this should be held among registered customers only to preclude most 'spamming'?

--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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ssamm
Posts: 364
Filters: 21
Similar to the voting idea would be being able to give a rating to a filter (e.g. 1 through 10).
And this wouldn't need to be what determines any reward -- it could be just for people to see, maybe. (I guess the download popularity is already pretty similar to this, though.)
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James
James
Posts: 676
Filters: 46
Cool so even if i can't afford V1 and im not awarded a free copy i will still be able to test the betas?
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Vladimir Golovin
Administrator
Posts: 3446
Filters: 55
Quote
Crapadilla wrote:
maybe have a way people can vote periodically on their favorite filters?
Nice idea. There could be a monthly vote for 'Most Valuable Filter', 'Most Creative Filter', and such. And maybe this should be held among registered customers only to preclude most 'spamming'?


Such systems are easily spammable by spawning multiple accounts and using them to vote.
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Vladimir Golovin
Administrator
Posts: 3446
Filters: 55
Quote
James wrote:
Cool so even if i can't afford V1 and im not awarded a free copy i will still be able to test the betas?


Yes, our current plan is that everyone who signed up for this beta will be automatically signed up for future betas. Plus there will be an ability to join as a beta tester for new users.
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