Second Life "merchant" may have your textures

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StevieJ wrote: James wrote: The free deal should have been limited time I have to disagree.....gotta have a demo trial period.....especially for a program such as this.....

You misread what i said, i was not talking about a trial version. What i meant was the HU reward program (free version with high usage filters). Of course a demo/trial version is a good thing. Sorry for any confusion

Basically i like trials to test the software but think it is unfair to give people extra extensions when others don't know about it. The free copy for HUs reward program should have run for a few months only. It also seems like a way of just growing the library/stats size yet they may not end up with a free copy for ages anyway.

I also agree that it's generous of FF for the free copies but also feel that due to the problems the library also causes like this thread (SL merchants etc) that keeping the HU reward deal open for so long only causes more problems. Also the fact that they are selling the app as well as the offer running. Thats why i said it should have been limited time only.

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James wrote: You misread what i said, i was not talking about a trial version. What i meant was the HU reward program (free version with high usage filters). Of course a demo/trial version is a good thing.

Oopsie.....sorry about that.....I need to slow down and actually "comprehend" what I'm reading.....

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James wrote: it is unfair to give people extra extensions when others don't know about it.

I totally agree..... I kinda just realized how unfair it was from Amethyst's point of view.....and I've been one of the biggests "informers" of it all along.....

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Amethyst wrote: I do not think it is as easy these days to get a HU. It is very, very difficult for a beginner to come up with anything that has not been done a million times already.

I think that's very true.....the steady decline of author involvement is obvious proof of that.....which is why I think FF needs to start getting progressive with rewards.....like dangling some "golden carrots" out beyond the program rewards.....for example.....1) offering rewards of other associated programs that use FF as a plugin (Photoshop, Paintshop Pro, etc).....2) author storefronts to sell royalty-based texture packs (giving authors the means to take advantage of the "proposed" tangible copyright protection on straight texture results).....3) simple result 8bf "advanced authoring" version of FF with the ability to submit filters to the library in converted proprietary format (I think alot of skilled authors would submit a serious amount of quality works to get this.....including myself.....I would actually pay good money for it!!! )......etc etc etc.....

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StevieJ wrote: How's that for "getting it straight"???

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Kraellin wrote: a little crooked

LOL.... Well, at least you know that I'll "call'm like I see'm".....and you won't get anything "sugar-coated" from me, eh???

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Kraellin wrote: it was a brilliant move on FF's part, great for those of us who didnt want to shell out $300 and great for the end users and great for FF (good PR and a better library). so, a total win-win-win.

I'll agee with that.....and call it good.....

Apologies for a long quote:

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StevieJ wrote: I've suggested all along that FF should offer storefronts like Second Life as an advanced incentive/reward level by which authors can sell straight texture results on a royal;ty basis with FF. It would work perfectly with the proposed EULA restriction on reselling straight texture results.....which would give authors "tangible" copyrights by which to do it.....while justifying the implementation of the EULA restriction all at the same time..... I don't understand why FF is letting the texture resellers run wild with this.....when FF should be taking advantage of it itself towards getting more authors in here and keeping them producing here..... Confused The only reason that I can think of to why FF is not taking advantage of something so obvious is that they don't have the resources to pursue it.....and that's a crying shame.....

Stevie, we're not ignoring this. The new business model will be our #1 priority after we finish the Mac version (very soon) and get the development of v2.0 off the ground (will take some months). We can't get back what we gave away with v1.0, but we've learned a very valuable lesson. All I can say, expect changes.

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Vladimir Golovin wrote: Stevie, we're not ignoring this. The new business model will be our #1 priority after we finish the Mac version (very soon) and get the development of v2.0 off the ground (will take some months). We can't get back what we gave away with v1.0, but we've learned a very valuable lesson. All I can say, expect changes.

Sorry about my "persistance" on some of these issues.....some of it might come off as sounding negative.....but it's "motis operandi" is only meant as positive.....

......

Yeah, I'm still in shock..... LOL.....

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Vladimir Golovin wrote: We can't get back what we gave away with v1.0, but we've learned a very valuable lesson.

The lesson being?

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Vladimir Golovin wrote: Parsimony

Dictionary Reference: Adoption of the simplest assumption in the formulation of a theory or in the interpretation of data, especially in accordance with the rule of Ockham's razor.

Now I know you guys are in cahoots..... LOL.....

Most likely StevieJ, my guess is also a better EULA stopping direct re-selling. User protection for their own work and extra reason to take part in the community. Maybe protection on the way the website library is displayed also so people don't just grab library images and run. Ways to bring back focus to the app as a builder/tool rather than a huge bundle of free for all textures. Hopefully things like that but we will have to wait and see what happens though...

Ok here is what I need to know I would like to get into creating textures which I will use/sell commercially. I have heard Filter Forge is a good program so I am checking it out...downloaded the 30 day trial, have been downloading filters and playing around a little bit. I have looked at the prices and "thought" I would be buying the full version for $70 where I can do everything except create my own filters, as apposed to the Pro version. Now with that being said....say I am using a filter someone created from the website. For example I want to make a gingham texture, so I download a gingham filter...play with the sliders a little, change the color, etc. Is THIS texture now ok to sell in the eyes of filter makers? As long as I am not selling the direct preset? I mean its going to look LIKE one of the presets probably no matter which slider I pull, but I guess the question is.....is it ok to use the filters to create commercial textures? Or do people who create the filters expect you to create your own filters in order to create commercial textures?

hi FF girl. steve is correct. there are no legal restrictions on using whatever you find in the FF library. some authors may gripe a bit about that, but legally, they have no recourse and you are free to use any and all presets and renderings.

as a caveat to what i just said, you really shld read the licenses and study them to be sure for yourself. i am NOT a lawyer, nor in any way a legal representative of Filter Forge, so my responses are not binding on anything here. it's just my opinion.

and, you never have to submit your filters to the library. a number of us have limited what we publish any more. i still submit one once in a while, but mostly i'm hoarding the little buggers to make steviej jealous i figure if i hold out long enough, he'll break down and pay me thousands and thousands just to see the things, let alone be able to use them (so far, it hasnt worked very well). but, simply not submitting the filters is an option. a lot of folks get the demo program and then work like mad to earn the free pro version and a lifetime copy after that. some work even more for multiple licenses for multiple machines. so, it all depends. so, if you're intending to buy the pro version and also wish to create filters, it is fun to see one of your library filters get used somewhere. but if you dont want to submit them, you then have all the rights to use your renderings with full coypright protection and no restrictions and no royalties due anyone.

here's my two cents:

resellers should not be restricted from doing what they do, but there should be a small caveat - all texture packs etc that are made using FF should contain a document naming the filter that was used along with the author of that filter, and some big bold text letting the buyer know that the textures being purchased can actually be made for free using FF!

do these things sell that good anyway? i had some texture packs up on the site that starts with R that i made with some unreleased filters of my own making. they did OK, i made about $50 in all, but then sales slowed down and they scrapped my files, so i eventually put the filters here. i thought about going another round, but to be honest, that site was extremely unpleasant to work with, so i think i'll avoid it in the future...

I'm new to Filter Forge but I do hang out in Second Life a lot. I go into Second Life for fun and don't have a business in world at all. It's just a great way to have fun, explore, and visit with friends who happen to live on the other side of the world (saving me a ton on phone bills). But I have to admit that even though I don't earn any money in Second Life, I have spent a ton of money there. And one thing that I've seen a lot in SL are texture stores selling ripped-off textures. Even the "big" texture stores do it all the time. In reading threads at the XStreet forums, Textures-R-Us essentially runs a sort-of consignment shop where they sell textures FOR supposed "texture makers" but they simply take the word of their supplier that the textures are either licensed or unique content and not stolen. The owner manages to have "no knowledge" of the IP theft in this way. Other stores are even more direct and just rip of the images themselves and cut out the middle-men. You go into the bigger texture stores in SL and you'll see tons of textures from video games, websites, and much more. In my short time of owning Filter Forge I've been looking through the library and I'm seeing lots of the textures that I've seen for sale in SL.

Not everyone in SL is a crook and not all texture sellers are rip-off artists. But there are definitely a lot of them out there. For the longest time it was the Wild-West mentality of "anything goes" in SL and that company is only now starting to try to reign things in.

As for the "earn a copy" system in Filter Forge, I have to admit that I considered it after downloading a free copy. But then I thought about all of the real work that I have to do and how little time I really have available to learn how to make new filters, I decided that it was best for me to just bite the bullet and purchase the program. I bought the standard version just a few days ago when it was advertised as being the last day of a 30% off sale. I thought I was getting a great deal. Now today the program is 40% off and I wish I'd waited a bit longer.

I know this is an old thread, but is there any update on people selling textures in second life that were made by people here?

I was perusing the second life marketplace and came across this person's store: Second Life Marketplace with heaps of different textures from filter forge.

I initially only saw the one (bejeweled) and sent a message to the creator via the filter forge website, but then perusing the person's store, I found heaps from filter forge.

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Amethyst wrote: it is the reason I don't submit filters to the gallery any more.

Shame, but I guess if it bothers you that much it´s the only thing you can do.

Sure, you could watermark those presets, but then they can just grab a demo and render them out. Yeah you could watermark that too, but a basic edition isn´t all that expensive...
I think no matter what you do to try and stop these kind of ppl, they will always find a way to do it anyway. You´d just punish the honest users.

Sure, I would find it lame if I saw someone claiming my presets as his own artwork. On the other hand, my textures aren´t exactly picassos or rembrands so what do I care I think, if they are that uncreative, poor them. Mixing different filters, using them on your artwork or creating your own is so much fun, their loss really. Can´t be very happy ppl

And for sure it won´t stop me from contributing to the community. I use other ppls filters and have fun with them, and I´m happy if I can give back and it saves someones day, they have fun with it or it just puts a smile on someones face.

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Stevie, we're not ignoring this. The new business model will be our #1 priority after we finish the Mac version (very soon) and get the development of v2.0 off the round (will take some months). We can't get back what we gave away with v1.0, but we've learned a very valuable lesson. All I can say, expect changes. Posted: March 26, 2009 12:56 pm by Vladimir Golovin

[My emphasis]

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Shame, but I guess if it bothers you that much it´s the only thing you can do.

What bothers me more is buying a texture pack and then finding I've bought my own textures. LOL Been there and done that more than once. LOL