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Stage5
Posts: 24
Hi,

Sorry if this has been posted somewhere else before. I'm using this awesome Cold Pressed Watercolor filter by Heliagon.
https://www.filterforge.com/filters/11073.html

My problem is that I'm making a large format sign panel that is 36"(h) x 60"(w), so the texture needs to be seen fr om the road. The filter doesn't allow me to adjust the pattern to a larger resolution. I roughly need the pattern to be about 600% larger than it is. The current size pattern won't be able to be seen from the road. One issue with oversizing the render and then cropping it down is that the size of the file will be massive. I was wanting to use the tiling feature to keep the size down. Is there a scaling node I can add somewh ere in the pipeline that will let me scale the pattern up before rendering? The sign shop my customer is using say they want the dpi setting to be 1000. If it was lower it would be much easier for me to render and then crop in Photoshop.

Thanks for any help and advice!
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SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12298
Filters: 35
As far as I know any material or textures that is self generated by Filter Forge can be configured to be rendered at any size and can be at whatever size you may need (well up to 65535 x 65535 pixels)

you do not need any kind of scale component
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Stage5
Posts: 24
Thanks SpaceRay for the reply,

I wanted to used the seamless tiling so the image wouldn't be so large. For some reason the print shop my client is using is requiring 1000dpi. So this will be pretty huge at full size.

To get the pattern the size I want it without rendering a much larger size, I do need the scale node. I don't want to render an 180"w x 108"h file at 1000dpi and then crop it down. I don't even know how long, or even if my computer could render a file that size. I'm guessing you meant to oversize the image and then crop it down? Or you have some other method I'm missing?

I tried rendering a full size file yesterday (60000px x 36000px) in the v6 Trial and after about 20 minutes it locked my whole machine up. The force quit window popped up and said FF was paused. I quit all the other applications, but FF never came back online. I was trying to work while it was rendering. I guess I will have to let it run all night while I'm not trying to work in other applications at the same time. I'm on a 2015 5k iMac with 36gb of RAM.
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SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12298
Filters: 35
There is something I maybe do not understand, I have been making myself some billboards, and if the large panel sign you want to make is going to be seen from the road, I mean that nobody is going to be close to the panel sign, does not matter really the perfect quality of the texture, nobody will see any difference from a far distance

There is no reason to make a 1000 dpi for a billboard, with 300 dpi is surely very enough, why does the client need a 1000 dpi ??? smile:?: smile:?:

You could render a 30000 x 18000 render and then in photoshop or other graphic software duplicate the size and most probably you will not see any difference

there are also LOTS of enlarging software available that would enlarge it even 4x or 5x with acceptable quality and so you could render the original in much smaller size, although the problem is that almost all are paid software.
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Stage5
Posts: 24
I know, and I agree. I've told them this a few times. I don't know if the people at the print shop know what they are doing (it doesn't sound like it). In the end it isn't up to me to decide the print dpi. I just have to deliver what the client's print shop is asking for to get paid for the job. The customer is a go between for me and the print shop. Of course this would be much easier if the resolution was in a more normal range.

Thanks for the responses. smile:)
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SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12298
Filters: 35
I agree with you that it would be good to render a small 3000 x 1800 and then make the final sign at the 60000 x 36000 using the seamless tiling in photoshop or other graphic software that supports seamless tiling textures

you do not need to have any scale component for this

the problem with this is that the texture will NOT be able to be seen from the road, as the tiling will be too small
I mean that it will be shown the same size of the original 3000 x 1800 texture multiplied all the over sign
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Stage5
Posts: 24
I thought the seamless textures how to be a square ratio?
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Indigo Ray
Adam

Posts: 1442
Filters: 82
If a texture is too... what's the best word to use... "fine", even with the size, pixels slider at maximum, you may be able to edit the filter to get a "coarser" texture. Of course, it may look more obviously tiled, that's the trade-off.

It looks like you already discovered that adding a scale component at the end won't work because it breaks seamless tiling. Rendering big and cropping won't seamlessly tile either.

With the watercolor paper filter, you'd have to decrease the repeats of the profile gradients, and also increase the scales of the perlin noises. You might also want to adjust the lighting settings.

---
You can make seamlessly tiling rectangles as long as the aspect ratio is an integer. 3000 x 1800 is no good, but 3000 x 1500 (2:1) is ok.
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Stage5
Posts: 24
Thanks for the reply Indigo Ray. I'll play around with the profile gradients and perlin noise settings. I'll be adjusting some of the texture settings in Photoshop after rendering.

Great tip on aspect ratio. This should come in very handy in the future.

I appreciate the help from both of you. smile8)
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SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12298
Filters: 35
Thinking about the texture, I think that if you want such subtle texture as this canvas texture to be seen from the road, you will need to make the details of the texture must be big, so you can see them from far away, because if you use the same as when you are close to it, from the road you will see it all plain gray

Quote
Stage5 wrote:
Posts: 11
I thought the seamless textures how to be a square ratio?


Oh, yes sorry, you are right a seamless texture should be square or as Indigo Ray said with with rectangles with the right aspect ratio
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Stage5
Posts: 24
Yes, exactly SpaceRay! This is the goal that I've had from the beginning. So the main problem I've had is with scaling the texture. It looks great at th standard size, but the standard patten isn't large enough to work on a sign. If I can convince them that they don't need 1000dpi, it would make it easier to create a seamless tile.
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chrisd
Posts: 51
Stage 5, did you get any further with this?

I was curious and I set it up to render on my PC. I could only get it up to 30,000 x 30,000 (I only have 17Gb ram) and it went into virtual memory so that slowed the rendering down quite a bit and I stopped it after 30 minutes. Based on the progress bar it appears it would have needed about 2 hours to finish.

If I had matched the proportions at 30,000 x 18000 I may have been able to render it without vm.

It would be interesting to see if this renders faster in the 7.0 Beta.
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Stage5
Posts: 24
Hi chrisd,

I haven't tried rendering the full size image yet as the client is still reviewing the options I gave them. I did try rendering a full size image about two weeks ago with the v7 beta and it locked up on me. Although to be fair I was running a bunch of RAM hungry apps (Photoshop, Illustrator, etc.) and still trying to work at the same time. So the next time I run it I will make sure no other apps are being used. I'm not sure if having a large amount of scratch disk space would help either? When I go to render this again I'll pop back in and let everyone know how it goes.
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Stage5
Posts: 24
I can't get this thing to render at full size. It freezes (or pauses) no matter what I do. I'm on a very new 5k iMac with 32gb of RAM and 500gb of free disk space. So this really shouldn't be a problem, even if it takes a while for it to render. I set it up to render this over the weekend with no other apps running in the background. chrisd, are you on a Windows machine? I need to deliver this art file to the client by tomorrow. I even tried this with a v6 demo and the v7 beta.
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chrisd
Posts: 51
I'm on Windows but only have 17Gb ram. My system was using swap space when I did a test render at 30,000 x 30,000. I'm not sure it would ever complete on my system at the full resolution you need, although half the size might be doable.


Unchecked tiling and set to 30000 x 18000, using 13Gb, at 10 mins in its about 1/3 done. No swapping.
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Stage5
Posts: 24
That's weird. It didn't post a message I had just written.

I managed to render a 600dpi version at full size (36"h x 60"w) in the v7 beta and it didn't have a problem at all. It only took about 40 minutes and I was working in Illustrator with a bunch of other apps open at the same time.

I'm going to see if I can push it to 800dpi. I did ask my client again if it was possible to not require such a high dpi. So I'll see tomorrow if the main guy is ok with that. I think 600 dpi should be perfectly useable, and if I can get it to 800dpi, it will be even better. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for trying to test it out for me.
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chrisd
Posts: 51
Sure, guess I'll have to add more memory on the next system if I ever want to go that large. This one maxes out at 24Gb, but its 6yrs old.
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Stage5
Posts: 24
My home iMac is pretty old. Mid 2011. It only has 8gb of RAM, but it can go up to 32 total. I don't want to spend the extra money now to update the RAM for it. I'd like to build out a render workstation eventually. I've seen some of the HP Z series workstations that have multi-core Xeons for not too much on NewEgg. Or I may hold out to see how the AMD Ryzen chips do and probably do a full custom build. I've been reading a lot about them lately in 3d rendering circles. I love Mac OS and have a been a long time Mac user, but I feel Apple is neglecting the Pro market.
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Stage5
Posts: 24
Just an update. I ran it at 800dpi and it also worked. I don't know how long it took though as I left my machine running over night. I wish there was more info on render times etc.
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Indigo Ray
Adam

Posts: 1442
Filters: 82
Stage5, a balloon should pop up when the render is finished that says the elapsed time. If not, go to Options > Interface and check "show elapsed rendering time"
(I use Windows, but it should be the same for Mac)
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Stage5
Posts: 24
Thanks Indigo. I'll check on that setting. Is there a log file anywhere of render times or is it just a temporary notification?
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