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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
Filters: 65
Not sure if this is a bug, a feature, or the remains of the recently deceased "fly in the ointment", but try this:

1) Edit the filter "Decorative Tiles" by Vladimir Golovin.
2) In the Filter Editor, select the top-most Perlin Noise component (the one which is connected to two Color 2.009 control components).
3) Click the "Group" button. The "Noise" and "Background" inputs of the Perlin Noise have lost their connections!
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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GMM
Moderator
Filter Forge, Inc
Posts: 3491
Thanks for reporting - this is a known issue.
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Vladimir Golovin
Administrator
Posts: 3446
Filters: 55
This is by design. The old Color control is a freak of nature - it's a component of Numeric type that outputs scalar Map signal. It doesn't have all the necessary mechanisms to be included into groups.

In future versions or betas we'll add notifications to inform the user that this component is ignored by groups.
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
Filters: 65
Would it be possible to automatically replace the old color controls with new ones, copying over all preset values in the process?

I'm just going over old filters, organizing them to test the grouping feature, and this behaviour absolutely destroys color in all my presets. If it stays like this, filter authors are in for a metric crapload of copy/paste work between old and new color components.

smile:|

*cough* Update obsolete component option *cough*
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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Vladimir Golovin
Administrator
Posts: 3446
Filters: 55
Generally speaking, automatic replacement is difficult at the moment, but we do have plans for a generic auto-replacement mechanism, or rather for its most important part, which I dubbed the Reconnector.

Here's a rough translation of its description from my dev doc:

Quote
The Reconnector is an internal object of the Filter Editor which purpose is to maintain connections to inputs of customizable components when their interface is changed. For example, if I add or remove an input from the Script Component, the Reconnector will attempt to preserve connections rather than just disconnecting them all as FF currently does.

Metaphorically, the Reconnector can be likened to a savvy cable boy who is asked by smart bearded guys in lab coats to hold a thick bunch of cables they just disconnected from some mysterious device. The lab guys haul the device away and bring another, different one, also with a lot of cable ports on the back. Then they ask the cable boy to reconnect the cables as he sees fit, judging on the connection type, shape, jack color and name tags on cables.


The key thing about the Reconnector is that it can sensibly move connections between completely different components, without assuming or needing any similarity in their interfaces.

If we implement Reconnector, it will give us abilities such as preserving connections after a component changes its interface (for example Bomber being switched between HDR and LDR modes, or Result between Surface and Simple), ability to move connections from one component to another, and to update obsolete components while preserving their connections.

I wrote a rough spec during the development of v2, but we still can't get around to implementing it, mostly because 1) it's just a convenience feature and 2) it's invisible to people who don't use the Editor (that is, buyers of the Basic edition).
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Vladimir Golovin
Administrator
Posts: 3446
Filters: 55
Also: the current Reconnector spec says nothing about transferring settings from one component to another, but I can't see why the cable boy cannot be asked to tune the knobs on the new machine so that they resemble the setup of the previous machine, using the same heuristic approach.
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

Posts: 4365
Filters: 65
I'm guessing that Reconnectors would also be a prerequisite for Ungroup to work smarter (i.e. re-establishing the group's connections to the filter tree -- cleaning up extraneous control components in the process -- instead of just dumping the group contents)?

smile:devil:
--- Crapadilla says: "Damn you, stupid redundant feature requests!" ;)
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Vladimir Golovin
Administrator
Posts: 3446
Filters: 55
I think that restoring connections after ungrouping is a separate problem. Reconnector just deals with connections, while the 'Ungrouper' will have to decide whether to delete extraneous control components, how to transfer settings, how to collapse remappers etc. I posted more about the problem here: http://www.filterforge.com/forum/read...&TID=10499
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SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12299
Filters: 35
Quote
Vladimir Golovin

In future versions or betas we'll add notifications to inform the user that this component is ignored by groups.


I have seen that in FF 4.0.7 you still can group older color controls without any notification on why they are being ignored and not showing on the group connections.

If there is no notification about this, it seems like it is a bug or maybe you think that you are doing something wrong and may not know why is happening this.

Would be good if in any future version is told that this is the natural way and how is done by design and is not an error or something wrong.
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GMM
Moderator
Filter Forge, Inc
Posts: 3491
SpaceRay, you are not supposed to group obsolete color controls. They are obsolete and their usage in new filters is discouraged – please see Vladimir's first post above.
Obviously adding support for discontinued systems within Filter Forge is of low priority to us.
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SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12299
Filters: 35
Quote
SpaceRay, you are not supposed to group obsolete color controls.


OH! Yes, you are right, and I agree with it, BUT I was telling this only FOR the persons that does not know this, as this thing is NOT clear enough in the groups help page
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