FF 4.0 Grouping and Instances - Comments, suggestions and opinions

Thanks Vladimir for the news and letting us know about it and do not keep waiting for it in FF 4.0. Is very good to know what is going to be included and what not.

Quote
Vladimir Golovin We'd like to implement custom components the proper way (submitting / downloading via online component library, similar to filters, with ratings, tags, editor picks, "official endorsements" etc, as suggested here:

Like much more the idea you have for the future, and it seems interesting and great, and even better than just having a custom component bar.

Rod_D I think you have understood wrong, or maybe I am wrong, but what I think that Vladimir wanted to say is that he does not want only to include the custom components bar inside Filter forge editor (so you could have them inside the software and easy to find and use) but he wants also to include also a way to import / export the custom components (or snippets) that you make, so it would be possible to share them in the same way as the filters is done now, and so you could load and import others custom components from other FF users.

:monday rant on:

The whole grouping concept, as it stands, is only to save screen space it seems, which isn't limited to begin with.
Instancing seems to be rather irrelevant too, at this point. Please, a custom components bar in 4.0. and save the library/sharing issue for 5.0.

If not, is there any foreseeable workaround to be able to USE grouping in a meaningful way before version 5?
(i.e. how to avoid:
-sel ect filter
-open editor
-select group and copy
-exit editor
-select other filter
-open editor
-paste and forget what the idea was, the flow has been broken
-repeat
)

Maybe a way to have two different filter editor windows open simultaneously to be able to drag components fr om one to the other?

:monday rant off:

For the fun of it: next time I submit a filter, it'll all be scrambled, obfuscated, and completely difficult to understand using groups. haha.

I can think of so many evil things to do.

I think grouping is incredibly cool and really hope that more people start taking advantage of it. I come fr om a software background wh ere the common knowledge is that you make small, simple subroutines because it's the smart way to write software. A group is essentially a subroutine in FF and previous versions of FF were like writing code in a language with no subroutines which would strike any developer as insane. It's WAY more than screen space - and instancing is incredibly important. Here are some of the reasons:

1. Conserving screen space - like I said, it's way more important than this single fact, but this is important. I don't know what screen anybody is working on that screen space isn't limited, but I work on a 2560 x 1600 screen that is about as big as it gets and most filters displayed in the editor are spread way further than the screen accommodates which makes it really difficult to get a handle on things. Dragging all over the screen and trying to remember what you just scrolled off the screen - what's the advantage to that?

2. Simplification - There was a time when "hardcore" programmers thought it was cooler to not worry about such things - experience has proven that macho attitude wrong. It's much easier to understand a filter when it's broken down into well thought out, well named blocks than when it's spaghetti all over the monitor. This is important for you, for anybody trying to modify/learn from your filter, and for future you who is liable to forget all the details current you is keeping in his/her head.

3. Instancing is INCREDIBLY cool! If you need to do essentially the same thing in three places no longer do you have to repeat the same exact network structure in three different screen areas. Later, if you need to make modifications, you don't need to hunt down the other identical areas to make identical change which saves time and makes you far less likely to make a small slipup in one of those areas.

4. Portability - I like the idea of a "groups" bar and would love to have it, but meanwhile I keep a "library" of component filters and cut and paste from them into other filters. A library would be nicer, but cutting and pasting a block is WAY nicer than trying to gather together all those nodes you used in some project or another last year, copy them all (breaking the links in the process), paste into another filter and good luck with getting the links straight in the new environment.

This is my absolute, hands down favorite feature in 4.0. The first thing I do when I download a filter that I want to figure out is to start grouping blocks that I have identified the purpose of. Among other things, it forces you to actually understand the different purposes of the different parts of the filter and once you've understood, you can get it out of the way and concentrate on what the rest of the filter does. I really hope people make intelligent use of it and the submitted filters start looking far more organized and intelligible.

Quote

It was confirmed that there would not be any "components bar for custom components" in FF 4.0 and you can´t open two Filter editor windows to copy components fr om one windows to the other, so my available alternative option is using the new custom filters folders and make my own specific Library folders dedicated only to save inside all the custom components filters and custom groups that could be used for other filter and have them organized so I can reach to them easily, although I have to open and close filter editor to copy and paste it.

Yeah, that's the cutting and pasting I was talking about. Not great, but still, a million times better than trying to excise a huge network from the middle of another huge network, remember wh ere all the connections went, paste into a third huge network and rebuild all the connections, hoping you remember them all correctly.