StevieJ
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First, I want to connect my keyboard/synthesizer to my computer.....and I was wondering how to do it??? I have MIDI input and output ports on my keyboard.....but only one port on my computer.....anyone know how to connect them???
Second, I was wondering about software that would allow me full control over creating any kind of sound that I can imagine and putting instrument tracks together to create songs??? I've been trying to figure out if something like Acid or Cakewalk Sonar is what I'm looking for.....but I'm having difficulties figuring this out because I'm a total n00b with this stuff..... 
Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated.....  Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: December 4, 2008 3:10 pm | ||||||||||||||
| jffe |
----Assuming it's midi-in (on your 'puter), then from the midi-out of your keyboard to that midi-in port on the 'puter, using a standard el cheapo midi cable (they are like $6.99 at Geetar Center or any big music store, maybe $10-$12 at a mom-n-pop type place).
----Well, there's a million software synths out there, some free, some up to $200 or more each. If you don't know anything about synth programming, then just grab some demos and pick the one that has the most presets you like. If you are into programming synths, then there are waayy more choices, and same thing really, try the demos and pick one(s) you like working with.
----Acid has gotten better at implenting midi stuff, but if you really plan to play all the parts on your keyboard, then Acid isn't what you want. I haven't used Sonar, but I'd think even it must have more midi options than Acid. Offhand, I really couldn't recommend one over the other, since my stuff isn't all that based on recording midi-in like you mention wanting to. You might check some music stores and see if they have any of them set up on a computer so you can at least check the layouts and whatnot, or again, go grab some demos ha-ha. jffe Filter Forger |
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| Posted: December 4, 2008 4:12 pm | ||||||||||||||
CFandM
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Well if you suck at keyboards like me midi is the way to go 
You can edit note for note what you play after its recorded..You can move whole measures of a song to another spot that sounds better..If you accidentally hit the wrong note you can go back and change that later..You can also record a song at a slow speed and up the tempo in just that one spot later to make yourself sound more incredible..
Depending on the keyboards you can also control almost every aspect of your keyboards through midi..Also midi is not as memory intensive as recording audio and sample based editors..All you are doing is recording data streams rather than audio streams... But in order to use midi you need a midi interface to connect to your PC or mac.... This gives you a spot to connect both the ins and outs of your keyboards to your PC..Both are vital to connecting to the keyboard....One connection sends the info to the PC (You playing the Keyboard) while the other sends the data back to the keyboard.(Playing the Song back that you recorded or system specific stuff like changing the sounds automatically. Changing tempo) You can find various type of interfaces from around 40.00us to more inexpensive ones elsewhere...Try ebay even? Heres an example of a USB interface.. http://tiny.cc/qfyt7 Here is a site with some decent info of how to connect your midi keyboard.. http://www.musiconmypc.co.uk/art_keyb...ection.php Also some more info.. http://tiny.cc/Ye0TZ There are also interfaces where you can connect both midi and audio..But these are a little more in the upper price range..... Here is another site with a midi roundup of sorts towards the software side and a little info about it.....But if you have questions you can always mail me Stevie.. 
http://www.synthzone.com/midiseq.htm Stupid things happen to computers for stupid reasons at stupid times! |
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| Posted: December 4, 2008 6:55 pm | ||||||||||||||
| jffe |
----A midi-out on the 'puter soundcard is only useful for sending midi to your music keyboard (if it's not just a controller), and then you havta record that back into the computer via audio inputs or an amp/mic. I really don't think very many people go that route. (So for a real beginner, I say skip a fancy soundcard at this point, just use what you have and jump in and see if you like the whole making muzaks on a computer thing ha-ha.) ----However, that said, all aftermarket soundcards have midi in/out on them so it's kind of a moot point in a way, and you need one with Asio drivers to get your latency down enough to make it a meaningful musical experience, ie = to eliminate lag from the time you hit the keys, to the time you hear the sound. I went with an M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 for like $109, and it got my latency down to like 3ms, ie = it rawks for people on a budget who don't need to record multiple tracks at once, and also has a standard line in for mic recording and outs for my monitors etc. Oh, and it comes bundled with Abelton Live Lite as well.
jffe Filter Forger |
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| Posted: December 4, 2008 8:06 pm | ||||||||||||||
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StevieJ
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Thanx guys.....much appreciated info!!!
I want to use my laptop for it.....which has a MIDI and extra USB ports that I can use.....which I'm assuming will do both MIDI input and output from what I've just read.....
Is there a particular software that is really easy/straightforward to use with unlimitted creative ability/tools/control/all the effects for producing any imaginable sound??? I want to create/control all the sound parameters through my computer and sample/play it through my keyboard to my sound system.....to start..... Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: December 4, 2008 10:26 pm | ||||||||||||||
Kraellin
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steve,
the cord you want to hook up your midi device is going to depend on what type of device it is. for instance, my older casio has only 5 pin din ins and outs, so i had to get a split cord with those connectors and at the other end it had to be a serial port connection. i believe these days you can probably do it all with usb, if your device has usb ports. as for software, i have cakewalk. you dont want it just starting out. it's got a pretty high learning curve. go with something simpler, like anvil studio (free). i believe it allows for midi in/out/control. i use anvil for writing music and playing a few things now and then. much simpler than cakewalk, though not as powerful. but start simple and work up. and like jffe said, there are a LOT of music programs out there. just a few months ago i went looking for new stuff also and that's how i came across Anvil. it's the closest to my old favorite, 'Deluxe Music 3' from back in the old 8 bit computer days and that was great software! and, since you have a keyboard/synth, you dont need the software to do this for you. use the keyboard/synth for your different instruments. you can get into that later if you want. so again, something like Anvil Studio is what i'd start with. it's good, fairly simple to use, yet can do quite a bit and will make it easier to break into midi. If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!
Craig |
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| Posted: December 5, 2008 12:13 am | ||||||||||||||
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StevieJ
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That's what my keyboard has......two general I/O MIDI connections.....
Believe it or not, I'm a fast learner..... .....and besides, nothing could possibly be more tedious than trying to control parameters through my keyboard.....nice hardware and sound, but really difficult interface and control. You have to dig down through everything, menu after subsequent menu, to get to anything.....and by the time you get there, you've forgotten what you wanted to do.....totally sucks!!!
Yeah, believe me, I do......like I said, trying to create through my keyboard is a complete nightmare.....which is one of the primary reasons why I want to create/control/sequence/save everything through my computer...... From my understanding so far, Cakewalk Sonar is a sequencer. Can I create sounds/instruments from scratch with it.....or do you have to use/get instrument plugins and manipulate their parameters towards what you want??? Do you know anything about "Acid Pro"??? Thank you very much for the info.....everyone......I've actually learned alot in the past day or so..... Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: December 5, 2008 12:44 pm | ||||||||||||||
| jffe |
----If you get the pro version it includes a couple of softsynths. All versions include some basic fx plugs. Really, all the main apps, Live, Cubase, FL Studio, Sonar, Orion, Acid, and the other 20 or so, all do sequencing and allow plug-ins (and pro versions include some additional synths/fx plugs usually, which is why they cost $100-$300 more). The real question is, do they have the exact features you want, and is the layout conducive to a smooth workflow for you. jffe Filter Forger |
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| Posted: December 5, 2008 2:31 pm | ||||||||||||||
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Kraellin
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ok, you can get those at radio shack, i believe. i've also seen them on Casio's web site, but you have to dig way in the back for it. Staples sometimes has cords and jacks, but not as likely as radio shack. shldnt cost you more than $20 retail. i think mine was about half that. as for creating any kind of sound you want, then you want a synthesizer. a sequencer is more about midi and midi control and 'sequencing' the midi ins and outs and all the various controls of midi. (you need that too for your keyboard midi control). or, you might try a waveform generator (which is really what a synthesizer is) or a wave editor, in which case get audacity, another freebie on sourceforge. but, in all honesty, i dont know what synthesizers are good right now or which give you the most versatility. generally, a good synth will also have a decent sequencer and vice versa. in the old days, all synths were hardware. now, with digital, i'd imagine there must be some pretty sophisticated stuff out there; i just have been looking for that in particular. do a google on synths. If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!
Craig |
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| Posted: December 5, 2008 3:12 pm | ||||||||||||||
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StevieJ
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Yeah.....looks like I'll be doing some demo-ing.....
Definitely alot of stuff out there to sort through.....
I want to take the "synthesis" away from my synthesizer (if that makes any sense).....give it to my computer.....sample my computer-generated sounds/instruments with my synthesizer.....and output audio to my sound system (which is already done)...... So, if I understand correctly.....I need software that does both MIDI synthesis and sequencing..... Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: December 5, 2008 5:12 pm | ||||||||||||||
| jffe |
----You have a sampling keyboard then I take it ? The problem there is, after a few steps it won't really be in tune anymore, that's why synthesizers exist. Granted lots of over-priced rompler workstations (ie = Korg Triton, Yamaha Motif etc.) have multisampled instruments that sound great, like the pianos on those are sets of thousand of piano samples, not just one note, and they are carefully edited and programmed to sound natural. You can buy those professionally made piano multi-sample sets, and orchestral stuff, and most any instrument you want, to run on a computer sampler and play via midi, but you're not going to be able to make your own sample sets at home like that. jffe Filter Forger |
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| Posted: December 5, 2008 5:37 pm | ||||||||||||||
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CFandM
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What type of keyboard is it Stevie?
I had an alesis qs series keyboard that came with software that connected via midi to control and edit every single aspect of the keyboard....Boy those were fun to play with... Sounds like you just want to use your keyboard as a controller..  Stupid things happen to computers for stupid reasons at stupid times! |
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| Posted: December 5, 2008 6:19 pm | ||||||||||||||
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StevieJ
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It's a 76-key Korg workstation.....about 15 years old.....I believe it came with some disks, but I can't find them anywhere.....
Now you're talk'n!!! 
Bummer......I would have thought that there was somthing out there that would allow you to do it......
I think that I want to make my computer the controller.....but I could be mixed up about that......I wasn't kidding about being a complete n00b with this stuff.....never done anything with MIDI or computers with music before.....but I'm willing to learn..... Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: December 5, 2008 7:22 pm | ||||||||||||||
| jffe |
----Go get the $10 midi cable then, and download a demo of Sonar or whatever and just do it. Jump in, you'll learn more in a week or two of messing with it than we've spun your head with so far or could in another 3 weeks, then you can start asking questions that make sense, and we can maybe really help you out some.
----For instance, go try and do what you do with FF using Genetica. You can't, you won't get it. Same with trying to compare a lot of audio apps, and worse yet just by looking at/listening to - what they can output when someone who knows what they're doing uses them. Audio production (ie = music making) is a long road to learn by yourself, however the good news is, it's very cheap to get into these days.
jffe Filter Forger |
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| Posted: December 5, 2008 7:26 pm | ||||||||||||||
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Kraellin
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yup, i get it, steve. you want a soft-synth or software synthesizer with instrument creation. and if i'm following the rest, you want to export those computer driven instruments and import them into your hardware synthesizer, right? if i've got that right, you dont need the hardware synth. just run everything on the computer and export the midi sound back through the hardware using the sequencer and midi controls. midi is 2 way in most instances and since you said your hardware synth has two 5 pin din ports, i'm sure yours is 2-way also.
but i'm kind of agreeing with jffe here about sampling the software synth with the hardware synth. that wont be a midi action, most likely and therefore is going to be subject to a LOT of variables, including, but not exclusive to your wall outlet power. you might be able to do it as an analog action... not sure. but regardless, it sounds redundant and i'd ask why, if you've got a good software synth, you'd want to convert that to your hardware. just pass it through your hardware synth from computer to your sound system and essentially bypass the hardware one. If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!
Craig |
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| Posted: December 5, 2008 7:33 pm | ||||||||||||||
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StevieJ
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That's way too reasonable and logical for me..... Actually, that's what I was thinking.....but wanted to narrow the program scope down so that I don't waste alot of time learning things that aren't going to do it for me.....
I actually did learn Genetica and didn't like it......too "stylized" and limitted.....can't "push the fold" for anything you want like you can with FF.....
Well, I know how to play (depending on who you ask  ) and I know how I want to put things together.....just want to find a better/more straightforward way to do it than trying to struggle with the madness of how my keyboard does it.....
YES!!! EXACTLY!!!  LOL.....
Yup, that's exactly what I want to do!!!
Well, if you know anything about the older Korg workstations.....then you know that the control interface totally "bites the big one"....little 5" x 5" screen, have to dig through alot of menus to get at what you want, etc...... The hardware and sound synthesis is great.....but trying to do anything else besides just playing is way more tedious than it should be..... It would be perfect if there was a computer program by which I could have "complete" control over my keyboard synthesis.....  Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: December 6, 2008 10:59 am | ||||||||||||||
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Kraellin
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ok, so have you looked at the Korg website? they might have some help/info/software that would help.
also, i did a search on software synthesizers on google yesterday and ended up downloading 6 or 8 programs. lol. i'm such a packrat. i may try a couple, but the point is, there's a TON of stuff out there, some free, some not. find some music forums and see what folks are using and what they're doing with it. i'll bet there's a ton of those out there, too If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!
Craig |
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| Posted: December 6, 2008 12:27 pm | ||||||||||||||
| jffe |
----Limited ? No way, it has every bit as many or more possibilities as FF does, they are just hidden/buried under several unfriendly and awkward layers ha-ha. I suspect the reason they only have like 3 or 4 people who've ever made any decent filters with it is because of the complexity of it. Ultimately, it's just too different & complex in layout, so anyone spoiled by the fisherschool playprice user-friendly qualities of FF would never waste much time with it (and yeah, I fall into this category too ha-ha).
----Korg would be the place to go then. Depending on how old/popular your keyboard is, there *might* be a computer parameter editor for it if you're lucky. But, then you are still most likely going to be limited by whatever your keyboard can do, and quite frankly as far as "creating sounds", even a Triton is a wimpy 'synthesizer' compared to what you can get for free and under $200 in softsynths these days.
----Just pop over to KvR and you can literally spend the next week or two downloading synth and effect plug-ins (freebees and demos of all the commercial stuff in the magazines and even stuff better than what music store sell), it is the biggest *vst* oriented music site online.
jffe Filter Forger |
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| Posted: December 6, 2008 1:18 pm | ||||||||||||||
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StevieJ
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Yeah.....seems my keyboard model is "in the past" with them......all about the newer models now.....
There is.....unfortunately, the ones that I think will "do the trick" are not free.....but I can demo them for 15-30 days.....
I have.....most are into "Cakewalk Sonar Producer & Studio".....and alot like "Acid Pro" as well..... With all the reading I've done so far, I can't seem to discern if any of them will do this.....
Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: December 6, 2008 1:25 pm | ||||||||||||||
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CFandM
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Thats for sure..
While craig and jffe including myself can give you pointers, tips and such on midi and soft synths it might be a question to ask over here about full control over the keyboard..They might be able to point you in the right direction or have the question answered already... In case you haven't found this site already
http://www.korgforums.com/ I just saw this on that korgfourms stevie...Its from Aug but still active it looks like...
Stupid things happen to computers for stupid reasons at stupid times! |
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| Posted: December 6, 2008 1:30 pm | ||||||||||||||
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StevieJ
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I missed that somehow..... I'm on my way.....Thanx!!!
Yeah, been there.....posting up my questions there is a good idea..... Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: December 6, 2008 1:47 pm | ||||||||||||||
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StevieJ
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On my way there too.....Thanx!!!
My "Sounds of FilterForge" will be released soon.....alot of banging, smashing, and things breaking.....you know, when you can't get a filter to work the way you want it to..... .....  Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: December 6, 2008 1:55 pm | ||||||||||||||
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CFandM
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Oh Boy! I can hear that now   Stupid things happen to computers for stupid reasons at stupid times! |
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| Posted: December 8, 2008 9:26 pm | ||||||||||||||
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StevieJ
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LOL.....
I got the MIDI connector set up to my computer.....software trials are next......probably Cakewalk Sonar first...... Steve
"Buzzards gotta eat...same as worms..." - Clint :) |
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| Posted: December 9, 2008 10:49 am | ||||||||||||||
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Kraellin
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**borrows dilla's popcorn**
If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!
Craig |
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| Posted: December 11, 2008 2:26 pm | ||||||||||||||
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CFandM
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Good to hear that Stevie..Well the only advice I can give on that is "Have FUN" Stupid things happen to computers for stupid reasons at stupid times! |
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| Posted: December 12, 2008 6:06 am | ||||||||||||||
| jffe |
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=236022 Koblo is having an x-mas sale (as are several other companies, check the *Marketplace* forum area on KvR) so I thought I'd post it here since I recall CF having an interest in their stuff, and well, this is the music software thread here eh.
jffe Filter Forger |
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| Posted: December 14, 2008 3:58 pm | ||||||||||||||
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