Will FilterForge ever come out of Beta?

In June I prepaid for the Upgrade to Version 4
(Upgrade Filter Forge from Professional
3.0 to Professional 4.0 (Win, preorder)
Delivery date: no later than 14-JUN-2013)

It is one thing cashing the money but an entirely different thing to deliver the product, or is this deal, a big con??

Can somebody please tell me, how to obtain the upgrade refund, as the product Version 4 has never been delivered to me, thank you.

Quote
Astral
Delivery date: no later than 14-JUN-2013

That is exactly what the invoice of the billing company states.I have only copied what's on the bill.It is not only misleading but a bad business model.
As a customer who prepaid the final version, I should not have to apply for any Beta serials, I should be given a final serial which would cover me for all Betas inclusive the final Version or be able to download a fully working Beta from a Members Area.

I "bought" mine a year ago. I can't see myself ever paying up front like that again.

They've now had my money an entire year and there's no end in sight. That's not a preorder, that's an unsecured loan.

Also, having FF need that money so far ahead of delivery is not a healthy sign.

Considering the Filter effect market is very fierce and heating up, this kind of customer treatment will only contribute to the detriment of FF.I suppose, we'll see the pre order ad soon again, when they need a new cash injection, free loans by deception.
Well, is there somebody who can answer my reservations, and customer complaints?
All I want, my pre order money back.We are even lucky for them to answer emails.I for my part, have never seen a software outfit, operating in this way.
Cashing money in this way without a roadmap, well,that takes some doing.The best looking deal can turn out to be the worst, in this case it certainly is for me.

Well there's a "contact" button right above. Plus this is a public forum, I don't think it ever was a place for customer service.

And I'm a long time user (since 1.0), been making all sorts of stuff with this program and part of my carrier/life was built on it. If anything, the one thing that'd make me also happy is a clear development roadmap posted somewhere.

[Edited for clarity]

Quote
When I installed the last beta, it asked me again for a serial, unbeknown to me it must have registered my beta serial from the preceding beta automatically.

That's probably an error. It's never happened to me.

Support should help you better than these forums. Pretty sure you already know that. Just sayin.

Quote
Will FilterForge ever come out of Beta?

It will.
On a sidenote, it took GMail 7 years to come out of the beta status, and hardly anyone had complained.

Quote
(Win, preorder) Delivery date: no later than 14-JUN-2013)

Your preorder -- that is, our obligation to provide you with a license key for 4.0 -- was emailed to you. There is no misleading or deception on our part.

Quote
I should not have to apply for any Beta serials

You also don't have to upgrade to 4.0 -- your current FF version will continue working even after new versions are released.

Quote
how to obtain the upgrade refund

Feel free to contact the support team and ask for a refund.

Yeahh... um... gmail example is probably a cringe worthy example.

I'd say this: I have a broad experience with various software developers (after running through a bunch of programs) and there are certainly companies that share similar schemes. It's just that they typically have something which keeps us expecting stuff out of them. A couple months back, I placed quite an amount of cash on a currently-developing node based programming software. The program hasn't been released yet but I was happily able to put down some cash because I felt the company was very open to showing us what they were doing. They had a very tight roadmap outlining what they were doing and so on. What I think made that company easy to invest in was simply the fact that they said "ok here's when you should expect us to do this and that" and their past track record has always been positive.

The thing is, it's very hard making software to begin with. I get that. But a bunch of people don't know what it's like to produce a large project, especially in FilterForge complexity scale. So to me taking cautious steps and understanding that fact is key. But in the end we all have expectations on different pages. I'd vote for a bit of clarity in that, and a welcoming roadmap for what to expect when. All I know is "soon" typically and "soon" does deliver so I can trust the company given their past track record, that this "beta phase" will end, it's just the question "well when?!"

I used to work for Amazon.com and one thing responsible businesses don't do is announce a final date they expect to release a product. There is always going to be unforeseen circumstances.

Perfect example is how about the BBM release for iphone and android recently, it was supposed to be a couple days ago, the company had to pull its products off android and iphone stores. With no reason explained why. This goes to show that Setting a date is not wise and it can be more damaging if you are unable to meet that announced date of release.

its better to say ETA soon, or ETA end of 2013, or the month or whatever. That thing on your receipt saying Delivered date: means they received the preorder request for 4.0, and your beta key was delivered, after the beta is over, their system will send you the commercial retail key for 4.0. What you are asking is impossible until the final 4.0 is released.

preorders are just that, you chose to order an item that has not been released yet.

Thanks SexyMacMan. "ETA soon" is a good estimate.

Quote
I have a broad experience with various software developers (after running through a bunch of programs)

As it happens I do have direct experience with this.

I am a senior developer with one of the largest software/technology companies in the world and I lead a project though which clients manage an insanely vast amount of money. The pressure involved is not insubstantial.

Quote
We don't want a countdown clock, don't want users to discuss a speculative date and don't want to put ourselves in a position when we would have to meet a speculative deadline.

A hard deadline (in the self-imposed form of a countdown clock or one which comes from some externality -- new financial regulations, for instance) are never fun for either client or supplier.

So I have no problem with someone who doesn't have those "real" deadlines making a decision to avoid constructing artificial ones for themselves.

That part is fair enough.

However, asking for money up front, when all these "speculations" you describe are still operative -- no commitment to either features or delivery date -- shifts ALL the risk onto the user.

That changes the equation entirely. Any endeavour which looks to move the risk entirely onto others is one I feel distinctly less comfortable about.

So for FF4, you have our money and we're stuck with hoping that what we've bought turns out to be worth it and that it still represents a fair deal when we eventually get it.

I consider that the total lack of commitment on FF's part to either features or a timeline makes that a raw deal.

Understand, it's not that I don't like the product. I really like it and play with it a lot.

They've had our money a long time, though.

I believe that 6+ years in, the release cycle should be more mature and it really shouldn't have to be a KickStarter for each new version.

But it is what it is, and I also accept that it's unlikely to change. The rational way to respond is to wait and pay only when it's released and if good value is delivered.

The incentive to produce good code in a timely fashion is also enhanced that way.

Quote
shifts ALL the risk onto the user

Yes, but it is compensated by the preorder discount ($50 for the Pro edition). So you can either take the risk or pay the full upgrade cost after a new version is released.

Quote
Skybase We do know the filter browser's getting an upgrade in the next beta phase. We just don't know the specifics and what other features might be tucked with it

Well I was expecting much and very excited with FF 4.0 Beta 1 and there was ONLY the groups feature, and nothing else, was excited waiting for FF 4.0 Beta 2 and see what would include and ONLY included the loops component, so I am sorry that for the FF 4.0 I am not anymore excited with any new surprise thing it could have, because I believe it will ONLY have the Filter Manager, and only for the final reléase versión they could give us surprise features, like for example the control settings locks.

Quote
CFandM I was just going to sit back and watch and read this thread...But had to agree with Skybase on this point a thousand percent...I have been here since early 2006 and have also seen all of the versions delivered as promised...

I agree with you and Skybase, I trust inFilter Forge and they have not deceived until now and always been true with that they have told and as already said above, they said that the delivery date was going to be at the end of 2013.

And one proof of it is here

Filter Forge 1.0 , 2.0, 3.0 release dates of Beta and full versions

Excuse me, "ONLY", SpaceRay? Seems like you're missing out on a lot of what's happening here! You, my friend, have yet to learn the tools in front of you and you're already thinking "well this is uninteresting. Fr om my observations you've only scratched the surface of this program. You know what crazy thing you can do with groups? What cool stuff you can do with loops? And you're bored 4.0 already? Whoa hold your horses before you jump off the boredom cliff. You have a lot to learn from the very first release of FilterForge itself.

I and many others have been playing this creativity game since version 1.0! We didn't have RGB math, translate nodes, non-seamless tiling, the bomber, and HDR. We didn't have any of that! And yet we have a group of absolutely gorgeous works in the library (provided free by the authors) which their techniques are still relevant to this day. Right, I don't even understand how some of the 1.0 filters work. Hah!

Come on man, you gotta be bigger than just wanting/waiting for features that run in your favor to be added! And I admit, I do have minor grudges with maybe some feature not being added, but I work with what I got, and that's the way this digital art industry works. You work with what you got. If you don't have the tool, you make it yourself or find ways around it. If you don't know what you're doing: learn it. Take notes! You can't do art without living art! So why let features lim it your creativity?

I know we're all not on the same page. We all have all these ideas and grudges but I wouldn't let that get in the way of making anything. If you're yawning with the updates, why not try something with what we got so far? There's already a million more things you can do with it.

And pardon me for spewing all that. I know it's off topic now! But it bothered me, and my love for what I do doesn't let me ignore it With all the love in the world! Peace!