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Skybase
2D/3D Generalist

Posts: 4025
Filters: 76
Thought I'd share this with you since these days I see watermarks everywhere. This is just a reaction to that in hopes to lighten my views about it. These blog entries kinda talk about it... but I have a bit more to say.

http://photodoto.com/photo-watermark-ideas/

http://www.whoahgirl.com/2010/05/11/h...otography/

It's important to note your context of showing your picture. As a designer, I watermark designs I send to my clients. I also watermark things I sell. I personally think watermarks should be designed to be used in the right context, it should be given some consideration and thought of who you're showing your work to. This is important. At some point watermarks will start to invade the work itself and art is a visual message. Watermarks get in the way of the correct interpretation of that message.

Now, we can have a major debate about how we should watermark our images. What should we do and so on. Personally, I leave conversations open. As an artist, I want to display that openness by providing minimum watermarking on my work, merely a creative signature in my case. I have confidence in people, the internet, and trust them. Of course, there's a lot of malicious people out there. But since I've been doing my work commercially, I can proudly say I don't have huge number of incidents of people just blatantly calling my stuff theirs. Permission is another interesting thing. I get reports from various individuals regarding people reusing my work without permission. Unless I allow that, I typically try to derive a nice win-win situation for both parties. Arrangements are typically met and I typically profit.

That's just my experience.

So you can get a bit creative with watermarks you know? smile:)
http://farbspiel-photo.com/learn/hdr-...termarking

Some closing thoughts: Watermarking and signing your name is is an art of its own. You can't be too polite, but you can't be too protective. You gotta leave breathing room for people who legitimately want to see stuff. Watermarking professionally will benefit anybody, and for me, I've benefited a lot from being professional and creative with it. Watermarks and signatures must respect the viewer and must be reasonable. The picture below shows you what kind of message I get when I see giant watermarks attempting to protect a picture.

Like I say, I just wanted to share a bit of my thoughts and opinions about watermarks and signatures. Generally, I respect people's thoughts about how they should protect their images, but I think there's an "ugly" or "professional" side to all of this debate. There is, however, no right or wrong with watermarks. It is merely about designing your signature to suit the needs of you, others, and the environment in which you're presenting your work. The point being that this is about design, it's a subjective discussion. I'm merely stating my strong-held opinion over these years of actively pursing my carrier as an artist.

I'll rewrite this as a formal blog article if I can get some constructive thoughts from others. With love, honesty, and otherwise. Just my thoughts. Thanks for reading.

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Betis
The Blacksmith

Posts: 1207
Filters: 76
What about something like this? smile8)



Roses are #FF0000
Violets are #0000FF
All my base are belong to you.
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Indigo Ray
Adam

Posts: 1442
Filters: 82
You have a point, Skybase. That third link is interesting, the one where the watermarks are warped into perspective and blended in like they're a part of the original work.

Betis that is too cool. smile8)

BTW, I made a filter that removes a top layer from the rest of the image (only for "normal" blend mode, though). If provided with a transparent watermark, the filter can remove it. Of course I don't do this illegally, it's just proof of concept.
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SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12298
Filters: 35
Very good that you have started this thread, and I was going to make also something like this, as I have a lot to say about watermarks as I have been researching and investigating much about this topic, although know I do not have the time to do it, as I want to do it well and right.

Thanks for the information and for the good links
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Skybase
2D/3D Generalist

Posts: 4025
Filters: 76
Since the time I began doing more commercial art, I've just become extremely aware of the self-image or how I look like to other people as much as I'm quite myself. Watermarks, signatures, and anything you do to your image to protect it from others is part of your brand, your self image, and a reflection of what you think.

But most people don't talk too deeply about that. You'll see tutorials on how to watermark an image, maybe a blog article discussing what ugly watermarks look like, but little do people actually discuss the implications of what a watermark means or what it intends to accomplish, as much as how it subjectively changes our interpretation of what we're looking at.

I've seen many people become too concerned with protecting their image, so much so that they ruin it. They throw up a image with a really obnoxious watermark. They scream THIS IS MY WORK! Copyright 2013. Legal Notice: You aren't allowed to use this image without MY PERMISSION. And at that point I start thinking, "Yeah yeah ok shut up I get it." And I don't even intend on taking it personally. But you can see how simply I can change my mind on a work by somebody simply because the artist chooses to protect it so much against the rest of the world. As much as I respect the idea to protect an image, I can't respect being overly protective about something.

You gotta let go some portion of you when you present "art" to the rest of the world as much as it is a balancing act to protect it. Learning to do that is part of what branding is about.
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SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12298
Filters: 35
Skybase have said in this thread (11 images or Colors stripes experiments using different components) that I have used giant watermarks in the viewing zone of the image, well here below is the answer why I have done it this way

Most of the examples and images I upload are not final artworks, and are only just examples of what can be done with a filter or showing some filter results that can be possible.

Quote
I've seen many people become too concerned with protecting their image, so much so that they ruin it. They throw up a image with a really obnoxious watermark. They scream THIS IS MY WORK! Copyright 2013. Legal Notice: You aren't allowed to use this image without MY PERMISSION.


I have found some time ago by chance that someones have found my examples in filter forge website and then they were putting the SAME images without any modification in their own blog or uploaded to Flickr and they were putting that THEY have made that image themselves, and was not telling that it was from filter forge either.

And even found that some of the images that I have put then after with small watermarks in the lower or upper part had been cutout by reducing the size of the image and then uploaded again in their blog.

And I have seen also by chance that someones are SELLING some filter forge images on some websites

So this above are the reasons why I have decided to make bigger watermarks in the middle of the image I upload so it will be more difficult to remove it and will take more time to do it.

Another reason is that sometime ago I have read in the newspaper that there are some people who work searching for artwork or images that they can steal and use in their own works and without caring if they are allowed to use them without asking and this is a rising trend, and I would not care if this was for personal use, but it seems that many of these persons they are getting money for this and having profit from what they do.

Usage of copyrighted photos, and about Copyright and/or Royalty free
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EAdams

Posts: 447
If I were a professional artist or photographer I would be extremely angry to see other people claiming that my creation was theirs. I would be very annoyed if they even just used my image in some context without giving me credit. (The same holds true if I were a Filter Forge filter developer!!!)

I don't think that plastering a prominent watermark across an image is an effective solution to this problem however. In fact, I believe that copyright theft is one of the unpleasant yet unavoidable facts of life in the digital world. Everyone who creates digital content (artists, photographers, software developers, musicians, filmmakers, etc. etc.) has the same problem. For some reason, people who wouldn't think of stealing things in a shop have no reservations about stealing someone else's work online. And though there have been many attempts to make it more difficult for the thieves, thievery still abounds. In the case of image watermarking, the watermarked image loses quality for honest viewers while a determined thief can remove the watermark with minimal effort.

I know there are invisible digital watermarking solutions e.g. by Digimarc, so if I were a professional digital photographer or artist I would look into them to see if they would be effective. Then I would hope that some big corporation would steal my image so I could sue them. smile:D

I do love the idea of semi-hiding the watermark in the image itself as described in the creative watermarking article. Also, a visible but not prominently placed watermark (i.e. not plastered across the whole photo) can help viewers who like the artist's work to find more fr om him/her and hopefully generate business for the artist.

Edit: By the way, to give credit where credit is due, I believe I heard prominent photographer Scott Kelby make that comment about hoping a big corporation would steal his image on one of the video episodes of The Grid.
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Skybase
2D/3D Generalist

Posts: 4025
Filters: 76
Oh SpaceRay.... I understand where you come from. But what I really wanted to say was you should design your watermarks so they look a little nicer than just being giant pieces of texts that are in my face.

I think it's important to protect your work!! And don't get me wrong, I've been a victim of all sorts of petty image theft things... but I'm a bit more casual about it.

But I really really just want to encourage you to design your watermarks. Take time to make them appropriate for the images you make. Don't let the designs slide, sometimes making a nice signature that's audience / viewer friendly is really worth it compared to just putting a giant piece of text on an image. If you don't know how, I can show you. I really think you can do better and I really think you should do better than what you're doing right now.

Keep in mind I'm not the sole voice on this, I've talked to other designer friends, professionals in the art field for their opinions on the sort of watermarking. It's a true learning experience discussing how they protect themselves from a simple case of image theft. They had great solutions and philosophies to share. I've shown them what you've been doing just to see their reaction, and they think you need to rethink your strategy. That if you're going to put a giant watermark, then design it so it's not simply in the way of those who want to see your work.

They basically say that art is for viewing, and that if an artist becomes too protective, then the art is lost. If the artist doesn't protect himself, then the name is lost. It's a balancing act between what's appropriate for the image and what you need to do to save yourself.

I think you can do yourself a favor. Don't let it slide.
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Tepearley

Posts: 92
Filters: 9
I totally agree with you Skybase. It really amazes me to see images being completely destroyed by watermarking being used in the wrong way. That watermark is about you and your work. Your brand as you said. It's not just about protecting you, it represents you. So design and proper placement so it's not so intrusive is important. Great thread!
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Skybase
2D/3D Generalist

Posts: 4025
Filters: 76
I just think most tutorials / things don't really touch on the psychological / philosophical aspects of "putting down a signature". It really means something to be able to say you created something.

So when I read "So this above are the reasons why I have decided to make bigger watermarks in the middle of the image I upload so it will be more difficult to remove it and will take more time to do it." I personally felt like that was going down a different road. My thoughts were,"That's not design, that's just fear of the public."

I don't mean to bring out my designer friends all the time, but they have things to say about watermarking and how the public perceives you. Here's what I gathered: Watermarks that take up 20% or 30% of an image can be interpreted as "being overly protective" that you don't "trust your own audience." In a strict sense, a watermark is deliberately saying "I don't want you touching my work, so I'm taking your right away to see parts of my image." It seems the "just about right zone" is 5 to 10% of the image. That at the percentage, you're seen still being fair to your viewers.

I eventually found balance where I think it's reasonable. http://skybase.deviantart.com/art/Cubics-423173619 in this image, I'm not leaving giant watermarks, I got one obvious signature in one location, and a bundle of several others nearly invisible at a single glance. There's also a layer of Digiarc's invisible watermark, but that really really doesn't get in the way of viewing the image at all.

In conclusion, I want my images to be seen by people and I don't want my audience to feel like they're being told I'm in control of my image. I don't want people to feel that I'm some kind of dictator of an image. I don't want people seeing me as a person who fears his or her own audience. And I know that in the end image theft is an inevitable consequence of an image. We have to face that fact and not react to it like a bad drug reaction.

I swear, that's how much a signature bears when you sign your image!! smile;) This is how deep it actually is.
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Tepearley

Posts: 92
Filters: 9
I like it! It's part of the whole that way. I think watermarking should be thought of as an art in it's self.
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