Computer advice needed

hi bel,

having recently bought a new one myself, i can tell you first off that if you want 8 gigs of working ram you're going to need a 64 bit system, not 32 bit. and, that brings a couple problems, the biggest being that some software wont work very well or even at all in 64 bit. it shld, but some things have problems. now, that's NOT in windows7. i still dont have windows7 on my 64 bit system. so, i cant speak to that yet. but, getting a 64 bit system will allow you to use much larger amounts of ram so that you can more easily handle those large files without crashing. i currently have 6 gigs in my system and can put 6 more in if i like.

now, most programs that arent native to 64 bit will run in a 64 bit system. they'll just run in 32 bit rather than 64. but, i have found a couple programs, like adobe flash, that wont work within the 64 bit internet explorer (version 7.xx). that's really the only one that's given me any trouble. other things seem to work fairly well; they just load as 32 bit and go happily on. so, it shldnt be too ugly going to 64 bit. paint shop pro works fine. my other art programs and plugins work just fine and the only other thing i can think of that doesnt work in 64 bit is filter forge as a plugin. it works stand-alone ok, but wont work as a plugin in the 64 bit system.

as for processors, the new I7's are quite good, quite reliable and quite fast. that's a quad core, which to give you some idea of how fast that is, my other machine is a single core running at around 3000 to 3500. the new machine renders things in FF roughly 9 to 10 times faster. if my single core can crank out a render in 30 seconds, the new quad core can spit it out in 3 to 5 seconds. that's a pretty big improvement

video cards have gone wild in the last few years... well, they've been growing fast for many years, so i guess it's no great surprise they're still growing. your choices are are similar to having more cores. the new sli technology splits your screen chores between two or more video processors, one handling one part of the screen and another handling the other. and, i think you can even get them where four video cards are dividing up the tasks. but, unless you are doing a ton of really high end rendering, i'd recommend something less. most folks dont really need sli at this point. so, a single vid card shld be sufficient. just make sure to get one with a lot of ram. mine has almost a gig of ram.

one other thing i've done on this new machine is go to RAID for my harddrives. i have two terrabyte harddrives mirroring each other in RAID. what this does, if you dont know RAID, is gives me an automatic backup of whatever's on my drive. so, if one drive completely gets fried, the other still has all my data on it and so i pop in another drive and my system is still all good (that's the theory, anyways. ).

and, from what i can tell, windows7 is actually a pretty decent operating system straight out of the box. this is something completely new for microsoft. they've really never quite done this before. the system is reportedly very stable, very fast and very reliable. like i said above, i dont have it yet, but i have played with it in the store a bit and have read a few reports, so i'm actually buying the hype a bit and saying that windows7 may be ok, even without a service pack or two you may still run into a couple of driver issues, but those are usually cleaned up rather easily and quickly.

so, basically, a 64 bit system so you can have more actual ram, a vid card with a gig of ram on it, large harddrives, preferably with automatic backup, a good, fast cd/dvd combo that reads and writes, lots of internal cooling (fans or other cooling) and an I7 processor or better.

you could look into macs also. i dont like the low end macs very much because of the closed system, but the mac pro towers look pretty sweet and are not as closed as say an imac.

you might also look into the new line of desktop super computers like the Cuda's and a couple others, but those can cost as much as a new car so have your checkbook and a few credit cards handy if you do

all in all, it's a great market for computers right now. chip prices have come way down, graphic card prices have come way down, processors are fast and pretty reliable, windows7 seems to be pretty decent by report and the 64 bit systems are beginning to be used more which means there's going to be more support for them. so, life is good in the computer world right now.

oh, and one other thing on vid cards, you probably want to go nvidia. ati seems to be fading a bit these days and the other options are either too unreliable or too expensive. so, nvidia is pretty much the market leader right now.

ok, that shld get you started. i'd find a good 'computer guy' if you can. it's like knowing the best car mechanics. you want one that knows his stuff and wont kill you in the pocketbook. they can be priceless

that looks pretty good

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Kraellin wrote: the only other thing i can think of that doesnt work in 64 bit is filter forge as a plugin. it works stand-alone ok, but wont work as a plugin in the 64 bit system.

It works for me in Win7 and Vista 64bit as a plugin.
I use it with Paint Shop Pro and Photoshop Elements.

The third system I linked to would be an awesome system if you're looking for prebuilt. You could drop the monitor and change the vid card... maybe add another 6GB of RAM and you'd be set for a couple years at least.

what I was thinking was maybe linking my old cpu and get a second cpu unit and link them via the modem router and use one monitor and one keyboard... but that's just wishful thinking so I can shove more inside the unit rather than spending it out on external parts...

okay am sold! I want one! Just need to decide if I need the monitor and keyboard, cause already have that keyboard, but my current monitor doesn't have HD, but then that system doesn't have the blueray as standard so um.. mind I was having fun adding bits last night on the last system you listed and watched my budget wave good bye as the price slowly went up.

Did look through the base units they have but couldn't find any that went up to 12 gig ram even the ones that looked the same as that one.. might email them though and ask. Thanks heaps for the info, so windows 7? the standard one okay or think I should fork out for the next one up?

Craig what page? And cool thought I could, I have a broad band router so think I might be able to get away with using that to route them.. and this current pc is on xp service pack 3 I think.. reason why is even though I'll be getting a cooler machine I have so much stuff on this one that will take ages to transfer over via cd's or redownloading stuff so was thinking if I linked them I could swap between the two and grab things from the hard drive when I need them.. or probably run both at once without having to have a host of monitors and keyboards filling up my desk I can clutter my desk without the help of additional equipment

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Beliria wrote: Did look through the base units they have but couldn't find any that went up to 12 gig ram even the ones that looked the same as that one

This link shows 12GB as an upgrade...
http://www.meshcomputers.com/Default....78&POPUP=1

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Beliria wrote: so windows 7? the standard one okay or think I should fork out for the next one up?

Home Premium 64bit should be good.
I only have Ultimate because I got a really good deal.
There are some extra features, but I haven't used them yet (bitlocker looks cool).

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Beliria wrote: reason why is even though I'll be getting a cooler machine I have so much stuff on this one that will take ages to transfer over via cd's or redownloading stuff so was thinking if I linked them I could swap between the two and grab things from the hard drive when I need them.. or probably run both at once without having to have a host of monitors and keyboards filling up my desk

You should be able to just put your old hard drive into the new system and transfer your files that way. You could even get an external drive. If you want to keep your old pc that's great, but really, with an i7 you likely won't use it much.

Totally agree with Kraelin that you should try to find someone local who can help you. There's tons of info online, and I'd surely offer any help/advice I can, but having someone local is so much better.

grr looks like will be going over my budget by a tidy sum , specially if I want a machine that will be suitable for 3-4 years or longer.

mind not sure what's better

2x 1GB ATI Radeon 5770 DDR5 - DX11 Graphics Accelerator (CrossFireX Configuration)

or

1GB ATI Radeon 5850 Graphics Accelerator GDDR5- ***DirectX 11***

good thing I saved quotes though cause they have changed the graphic card choice with that system now.

Thank you meyendless just have to decide now out of the 3 config's quotes I have saved which one I should pick, then hopefully with in a week or two will have a new pc on my desk!! yay!

This company only seem to use ati graphic's, have looked elsewhere but pushed to get anything close to this system for that price.

you know... I've not played tetris in years.. but when I have time for game playing will be things like Guild wars or something along that kinda lines. Plus need a decent enough graphic card for 2d & 3d designing. Little games I tend to play on my iphone instead now anyway normally when I'm meant to be asleep.

But as to Meshcomputers, currently starting to go off the idea of purchasing from them, had a few phone calls saying they are going to email me some deals but no emails yet, first phone call was on Saturday just gone. So am looking at another site that was recommended as the next best one to meshcomputers and they do nvidia graphic cards as well as ati.

http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/

Still not keen on the idea of a Dell computer even though I know a few people say Dell is great.

Guild wars ran pretty well on my old Geforce 9500gt, so any card above that would be fine. As for desiging, not much really takes advantage of the GPU yet. Make sure your software can do it or you may as well just save a couple hundred $$$ and get a cheap card, or a motherboard with a decent IGP. My girlfriend uses Daz3d/Poser/Hexagon and all she has is an integrated Radeon HD4200. Her upgrade will be either a gts250, or my gtx275 if I decide (can afford) to jump on Nvidia's next gen card.

Also, video card needs will kinda depend on your monitor/monitors.
Bigger or more screens will need more GPU power.

I don't know much about UK shops, but I'll have a look around that site you posted.

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Kraellin wrote: sounds like you're headed in the right direction, bel. you've already surpassed what i'm aware of in the field. i didnt even know DDR5 was available. when i bought my new rig i could only get DDR3. and i didnt even know DX11 was available either. so, you can see i've not been following the computer upgrades all that closely, which is why i suggested a local guru.

DDR5 is really only available on video cards right now.
Not much really uses DX11 yet so honestly, unless you really need it don't waste the money on a card that supports it. By the time it's useful to you will probably be able to find the card for half the price or less.

good point meyendlesss, have seen them mentioned in a few pc mag's but normally they get less of a good review than mesh machines..

And Craig nothing in my spam for that email address.. might go double check the set up for it just in case.

the scan site has some cool pc's will have another look at the overclockers site and see if I can find complete systems, was late last night so not sure if I just missed the link for them.

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Kraellin wrote: the SSD would be nice, but from what you've said prior in this thread, i think it would be too pricey for your budget. it would be nice as a boot drive, but that's something one can cut from the budget pretty quickly for now

Totally agree there.
SSDs are way too expensive right now.
If you can afford one though I hear they make a noticable difference in system performance.

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Kraellin wrote: and the IGP... never! those things are crap, in my experience, and i wont have one again. but, that is another thing that can be done later. you can always put a card in later and bypass the IGP through bios.

It depends on what motherboard you get and what you want to do with the system. The motherboard my girlfriend has is a Gigabyte ga-ma785gmt-ud2h which has an integrated Radeon HD4200. It's actually pretty good. Her work looks good on it, and it can even handle Oblivion with playable framerates (after some game tweaking). It can also do 1080p. I will agree that most IGPs are no good, but aren't all total crap anymore.

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meyendlesss wrote: i would recommend going mirrored RAID. that's what i did except i only went one terrabyte instead of two. but, that's again a budget thing and you can cut down a little by going one.

2 or more drives in RAID would be faster, but there can be potential risks involved. Personally, I'd go with something like a WD Caviar Black 500GB or 640GB (the 640 is a little faster) as your OS/Program drive and then get a 2TB WD Green for storage.

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Kraellin wrote: and, the last i heard, you want to get western digital drives

Definately what I recommend. Get the "Caviar Black" series for OS/programs as they're the fastest. The new Seagate (7000.12) look pretty good too. They were the first drives out using 500GB platters. From what I've seen though, access time isn't great on them so I'd only want one for data storage. Really, all manufacturers have made drives that have failed.

(Anyone know why I was quoted using Kraellin's words in the above posts?)

Anyway...

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Kraellin wrote: my personal experience with onboard video is pretty much 'what the freak is this crap?' . lol. if yours is better, why ok, but just remember if the video goes bad you also have to replace the motherboard. plus, if you just want to upgrade, it's the same thing. so, to me, IGP's suck rocks. lol. dont take that personally. i do understand what you said

My gf is only using the IGP because I couldn't afford to add a video card to the build right away. It'll still be a couple months until that happens. It's certainly not something I'd recommend for a gamer, though it has surprised me with how it plays Oblivion (though she only plays @ 1024x768). Since she doesn't have any software that uses the GPU to render it doesn't hinder her 3d work really either.

That being said, I wouldn't recommend using onboard graphics unless you're either on a very tight budget, or you don't need the power of a dedicated card. Then you have to make sure you get a good one, as most IGPs do "suck rocks". The AM3 motherboards (well, some of them) have decent onboard graphics. From what I gather they're far ahead of any IGP on an Intel platform.

meyendlesss,

thanks. i think our discussion has given bel some decent ideas

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Beliria wrote: Cooler Master Elite 330 No Security Software Included NVIDIA GeForce GTS 250 - 1 GB - 2xDVI/VGA/HDMI (Asus) (Includes Free Space Simulator & WOW Games) Motherboard Integrated 7.1 Sound Intel i5 - i7 Heatsink & Fan - Low Noise 10 X USB 2.0 Ports Asus Rampage II Extreme (Intel X58) (Includes 2 Free Games) Corsair 12GB (6x2GB) XMS3 1600MHz - Lifetime Warranty (DDR3) Intel Core i7 920 D0 (4 x 2.66GHz) 8 MB 4.8GT/s 1 Port Firewire IEEE 1394 (Built In) OCZ 600W Stealth XStream - Low Noise Restore DVD & Original Operating System DVD 1 TB (1000 GB) SATA-II HDD UDMA 300 7200 32MB Samsung (SH-S223L) DVD /- RW 22x - Black - Lightscribe (SATA) 1 TB (1000 GB) SATA-II HDD UDMA 300 7200 32MB (Includes One-Click Cleanup 2009 Software) Logitech 2.1 S-220 Black Speakers Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64 BIT (Genuine DVD & COA Included)

That looks like a great system.
My only suggestion would be to change the Asus 'Extreme' motherboard as they're kinda expensive (almost $500 here in Canada) and really more for overclockers (don't know if you're into that or not). If you want ASUS, maybe go for a P6T SE and save a hundred £ or so... maybe an EVGA X58 SLI LE or Gigabyte ex58-ud5.

yup, asus is about the best motherboard around. i always get them when i can. only time i ever ruined one was when i made a boo-boo and fried the board by something i did, not them

sweet you'll love the speed increase

oh, i shld have mentioned, the lightscribe thing is pretty much a joke for now. it can only do black and white and requires special cd/dvd's. but, it probably didnt cost much more than a normal cd/dvd, so not a biggie.

oh, and when i say it only does special cd/dvd's, i mean using the lightscribe itself, not the rest of the cd/dvd stuff. the rest is standard.

You should be very happy right now... that system will be awesome.

the lightscribe wont hurt you. you'll just need to have special cd/dvd's to use that scribe part. otherwise, it will function just fine as a cd/dvd read/write device.

and yes, you're going to see a sizeable speed increase... like 10x or better, i would guess