Presidential Politics :)

I'm an Independent and I like things from both sides of the aisle.....primarily having a strong military and socialized healthcare.....but I need to vent about Bill and Hilary Clinton.....

I can't stand Bill and Hilary Clinton (Hilbilly).....all they care about is getting into the White House and gaining power.....and they don't give a damn about this country at all!!! They will stop at nothing to use every dirty trick in the book.....fake cry before a primary.....completely distort Obama's record.....use Bill to play "good cop / bad cop".....etc. I can't believe all the people who are choosing to disregard how calculating, criminally corrupt, and dishonest these two really are.....which makes Bush look like a choir boy in comparison to them.....

If I was Obama, I would start reiterating Bill and Hilary's past.....Bill disgracing the presidency and being the first president to be impeached by congress.....giving our children a crash-course in porn.....sexual harassement of several women.....lying repeatedly about everything under oath.....WhiteWater scandal.....mysterious death of Vince Foster who was about to turn over evidence against the Clintons.....Hilary supressing subpoened evidence taken from Vince Foster's office before authorities were aware of Vince Foster being found dead in the park.....this subpoened evidence mysteriously showing up outside of Hilary's office without her knowing anything about it.....etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.....

I can't believe that people are willing to disregard who these people are in the hope that Hilary will socialize health care and pull our military out of Iraq. Wake up!!! Hilary has changed her position so many times that it would make your head spin.....and she will say anything that she thinks the public wants to hear in order to further herself!!! Hilary will never get her health care program thru the Senate and she knows she can't just yank our troops out of Iraq.....which Obama already realizes and is being honest about it.....

I'm officially "ABH" (anyone but Hilary).....and I will vote Republican if Hilary gets nominated......

I had to get that off my chest.....

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Kraellin wrote: abolishing the IRS and going with a national sales tax

Yeah, I definitely like the idea of no more income tax and doing away with the IRS.....but the sales tax might have to be too high to compensate for it.....and might make things too expensive for everyone to afford.....

I actually think Romney's "no income tax under 200K" plan would work the best to stimulate our economy over any other plan that I've heard.....because the lower and middle classes are what stimulates small business.....

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ronviers wrote: All I have to say about presidential politics is that if you support Bush and his gang then you are not welcome to use or comment on my filters or snippets

rofl!

i do understand.

I would like to see Arnold Schwarzenegger as a president of USA...

...in order to see Sylvester Stallone's face

(Remembering his reaction in the "Demolition Man" when Lenina sayed that he was a President and how they are often banter each other in their movies )


Quote from the "Demolition Man":

Lenina Huxley (Sandra Bullock): I have, in fact, perused some newsreels in the Schwarzenegger Library, and the time that you took that car...
JohnSpartan (Stallone): Hold it. The Schwarzenegger Library?
Lenina Huxley: Yes. The Schwarzenegger Presidential Library. Wasn't he an actor when you...?
JohnSpartan: Stop! He was President?
Lenina Huxley: Yes! Even though he was not born in this country, his popularity at the time caused the 61st Amendment which states...
JohnSpartan: I don't wanna know. President...

or that episode in "The Twins" when Arnold (Julius Benedict) had seen Rambo's poster on the wall

Love Them very very much!!! And Wish Them All the Best!

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ronviers wrote: if you support Bush and his gang then you are not welcome to use or comment on my filters or snippets. My filters and snippets were made for nice and honest people.

It looks like I've been banished..... I don't think that anyone could have done a better job than Bush in dealing with this terrorist war.....bringing the fight to them.....and completely removing it from our soil since 911. The Bush response to 911 was the right one.....and I think it's totally ridiculous and naive that Democrats think that talking or using harsh language would be a better way to go with these Islamic extremists.....who are waging a holy war against us.....and don't care who they kill in the process.....women, children, even their own people. If we completely pulled our troops out and allowed these terrorists to re-establish themselves again over there, they would soon be back over here with more things like 911.....so I say keep the pressure on them and let them spend the rest of their lives hiding from us in caves......

Hilary Clinton is totally misleading the American public and just saying what she thinks everyone wants to hear in order to get elected.....when she knows that she can't just yank our troops out of Iraq and let terrorist factions retake that country.....nor would she do it if she ever became president.....and take a chance on that decision backfiring in her face with full responsibility for it upon her.....

I like Obama because he's completely honest about it.....he's not going to be foolish and just yank all of our troops out of there without considering the consequences.....and take a chance of ever putting us at risk. This is why Obama will not commit to Clinton and Edward's troop withdrawal timetable.....because it has no consideration for the consequences to the people of Iraq or our own national security.....

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ronviers wrote: I'm an atheist and my friends are gay and lesbian. Not only are we not welcome in his America but he and Romney are 100% convinced that my sole is only fit to fuel the flames of hell.

Really??? I don't see gays and lesbians being unwelcome in this country at all.....and I don't see Romney, coming from the Mormon faith, being anything like that either.....

This country is actually one of the best in the world for gay rights.....but still behind countries like France and Canada. I think that all marriages in this country should be called "civil unions".....separating church and state.....then gays wouldn't have fight the definition of "marriage" held in the Christian bible.....

I don't blame anyone for being an atheist.....because millions of lives have been needlessly lost fighting over religeous beliefs.....that are all clearly man-made. Don't get me wrong.....if people find happiness and lead a positive life because of their religeon, then more power to them.....but don't throw it in my face and tell me I'm wrong for not sharing the same beliefs.....

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Crapadilla wrote: 'If elections would change anything, they would have been made illegal a long time ago!' - Kurt Tucholsky (German satirical Essayist and Poet, 1890-1935)

"I'm rubber and you're glue.....whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you...."

-Pee Wee Herman

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Crapadilla wrote: Ron Paul for President!

He actually has some good ideas.....leave the economy alone and let it correct itself, stop supplying arms to Israel's enemies, stop babying Israel, etc.....but no one is ever going to take him seriously because he's a little too extreme for Republican party lines......

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Constantin Malkov wrote: I would like to see Arnold Schwarzenegger as a president of USA...

I like Arnold too.....although some of his ideas out in California have been a little "questionable".....

I got a chuckle out of that "Twins" scene also.....when Arnold looks up at Stallone as Rambo on the billboard, then looks at his own bicept, and then laughs.....

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ronviers wrote: The "them" you mention were the Saudis not Iraqis. Where were the suicide bombers from? Where is Bin Ladin from?

The "them" is Al Qaeda.....led by Osama Bin Laden who sent the suicide bombers on 911.....and he fled Iraq when Bush used the WMD (weapons of mass destruction) excuse to invade and go after him. He is now in hiding somewhere in the mountains of Pakistan.....

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ronviers wrote: Bush put his family ties with the Saudis before the interests of the nation and distracted the US population from the actual enemy.

We get over 50% of our oil from the Saudis.....who are sitting on the largest oil deposit on this planet (25 miles wide by 106 miles long).....and since we are almost totally dependent upon them, I think it's in our nation's best interests.....

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ronviers wrote: Occupying a Muslim country that had no connection to the 911 attack is an act of polarization

Like I said.....Bin Laden orchestrated 911 from Iraq.....

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ronviers wrote: a very organic way to radicalize a new generation.

They are already conditioned that way against us.....but it certainly doesn't help matters for us to go in and occupy an Islamic country.....

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ronviers wrote: The resources used in Iraq could have been used to make Afghanistan a beacon of freedom and modernity for oppressed Muslims everywhere.

It still can if the people of Iraq can come and work together as a country.....but there at least three different factions in that country that hate each other (Sunis, Sheites, and Kurds).....which is a big reason why a new government can't get off the ground over there. On top of that, Al Qaeda is still waging attacks (suicide bombers and snipers) every other day to keep the chaos going.....hoping that we will give up and leave.....so they can come back in and re-establish a stronghold in that country.....

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ronviers wrote: you live in one of the most liberal regions of the US.

That's very true.....

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ronviers wrote: Sexism, Racism and homophobia are right out in the open here.

Sorry to hear that.....and hope it changes.....but it might take a few more generations before they get it out of their engrained dispositions down there.....

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ronviers wrote: I think lesbians and gays should be fully included in marriage; in name, ceremony and law, not because it is right or wrong but because it would make them feel better - like giving someone a hug when they need it.

Well, it's started here in Massachusetts.....but it has a long way to go.....and won't be that easy with the bible-belters.....like you have said.....

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ronviers wrote: But that is exactly what has been happening with republican politics, and you by proxy, for the last two cycles and if you listen to Huccabe and Romney stump you will hear the same thing.

I don't see that at all in either one of them.....unless I'm missing something.....

Well, Huccabee used to be a Minister......so that is expected. The Republican party knows that he would lead in a liberal Christian manner....which is why he has been a "one-hit wonder" in secular states.....but he's all done and will be dropping out of the presidential race real soon.....

I read Romney quite differently.....because it's quite clear that he would not lead this country by his religious beliefs at all. Also, I do believe that there is some truth to what you quoted from him.....because all the laws we have now to protect our freedoms all came from the laws of religion that were used to found this country.....right???

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ronviers wrote: Speaking hypothetically; would you be willing to admit that if you are wrong on this point, and there was never any connection to Iraq and 911

.....but there's no "hypothetical" about it.....unless you totally ignore everything.....or are brain-dead and believe Rosie O'Donnel's conspiracy theory that we intentionally had those jets hijacked and crashed into the World Trade Center buildings..... LOL.....

Ron, you're scaring me.....please tell me that you think Rosie O'Donnel is a raving lunatic??? .....

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ronviers wrote: That was never mentioned leading up to the war. If we're going to war to secure oilfields that should be part of the debate. How many wind and sun farms would 1.2 trillion dollars have bought us? I think that is the current pricetag for the war.

Our dependence on Saudi oil has always been well known.....and they are primarily responsible for jacking up oil prices in collusion with US oil companies.....which is why Bush just flew over there to negotiate a dropping of oil prices with them.....

Well, I think that money is well spent if it puts an end to anything like 911 ever happening again.....

Speaking of wind farms.....they are going to put a huge one off shore here where I live in Gloucester, MA. It was originally supposed to be built off shore of Cape Cod.....but the rich people down there didn't want it to spoil any of their views.....they fought it tooth'n nail and won.....so now it's coming here.....

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ronviers wrote: Are you suggesting that I owe my civility to religion?

Society as a whole, yes I am.....because where would we all be now without 'thou shall not steal.....thou shall not kill.....thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife, etc.....the very first laws that all of our current laws came from.....

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ronviers wrote: What religion and which god taught humans to be civilized? Are you suggesting that civilization began with the founding of this nation's laws?

You know what I'm saying.....

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ronviers wrote: I would argue that I am civilized because I place a high priority on being nice and honest guided by the principle that I should do to other as I would have them do to me. And before you tell me that the golden rule is a religious dictum I want you to tell me where it's from.

Yes, but others would be doing and getting away with doing more undesirable things to you than you would do unto them..... LOL.....

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StevieJ wrote: I could stay up all night debating this..

I think each side has been laid out pretty well. We are getting the same information but filtering it in different ways.

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StevieJ wrote: Still friends, right?

Tricky. Never had a friend I couldn't bring out in public before. My other friends would lynch me. Of course they would use lavender chiffon and I could probably get loose.

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ronviers wrote: Tricky. Never had a friend I couldn't bring out in public before. My other friends would lynch me. Of course they would use lavender chiffon and I could probably get loose.

LMAO.....

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jffe wrote: if an airplane (of any kind, passenger or otherwise) had hit the pentagon, then where's the video footage, surely they'd have released it by now (since they took it from several locations in addition to their own camera that supposedly caught just 4 frames that were so blurry they would make bigfoot himself giggle)

I saw the footage.....and it looked like a jet smashing into the Pentagon to me..... Four frames of a jet going 300 mph is pretty good.....

Whatever inconsistencies, there were people on those flights that aren't here anymore.....which should be enough to prove that they were commercial passenger jets.....

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jffe wrote: Well, again, no offense

None taken.....I can engage in a civil debate.....sometimes.....

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jffe wrote: it most certainly did not, and considering it's the freakin' pentagon, are you telling me 4 blurry frames is acceptable for surveilance ?! Come on, really.

They showed the commercial jet from two different angles......approaching the Pentagon and craching into the side of it.....and they did find some of the remains of people on that flight.....so.....???

Well, you and Ron are certainly entitled to your theories and beliefs.....and I will not try any further to convince you otherwise.....

I will go along with that jet being shot down off shore of Manhattan though.....many witnesses to some missile fire on that one......

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_...an_Century

http://www.eagleforum.org/topics/NAU/

bush is dirt, so is clinton, so is obama, so is the entire lot of them. None of them give a crap about We the People, they care only about how much more of our money they can shovel into their pockets before the US becomes the largest slave colony that ever was.

NAU, the highways, the selling off of our ports, water supplies, bridges, highways, and more to foreign countries, the over half billion of our dollars that was given to a Haliburton (sp) company to build concentration camps all over the country, the super highways, the Mexican port that leads to the US being controlled by China, war on terror where our borders are left wide open while our own freedoms have been taken away and continue to be taken, and so much more.

Our government and wannabe government should all be shot for treason. There is no one running that I would want as president. I would vote for Bin Laden before I would vote for hillary.

PS...where is the plane parts at the pentagon? I don't mean that tiny engine that they are pretending came off a commercial plane, I am talking about the one that supposedly crashed into the pentagon? Did it just evaporate? Maybe the heat caused that engine to shrink...

In the pictures, taken right after the crash...there was no plane, just a tiny skid mark, a hole in the wall, and a tiny engine. I will never believe the phoney "official" story and I used to be a bush supporter.

Bet you didn't even read a single thing at those sites.

I would like to see them as well.

Does that extra film coverage come with the special koolaid?

It was meant as a joke. Guess I needed to use smilies. I'll leave.

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StevieJ wrote: No, another camera picked up the jet coming straight in......showed it on the news about a million times......and just recently in a two hour PBS 911 documentary.....

----I never saw that on the news back when it happened, must've been civilian footage. What was the name of the special ? I'll downlaod it and check it out.

jffe

washingtonpost.com

Al Qaeda-Hussein Link Is Dismissed

By Walter Pincus and Dana Milbank

Washington Post Staff Writers

Thursday, June 17, 2004; Page A01


The Sept. 11 commission reported yesterday that it has found no "collaborative relationship" between Iraq and al Qaeda, challenging one of the Bush administration's main justifications for the war in Iraq.

Along with the contention that Saddam Hussein was stockpiling weapons of mass destruction, President Bush, Vice President Cheney and other top administration officials have often asserted that there were extensive ties between Hussein's government and Osama bin Laden's terrorist network; earlier this year, Cheney said evidence of a link was "overwhelming."

But the report of the commission's staff, based on its access to all relevant classified information, said that there had been contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda but no cooperation. In yesterday's hearing of the panel, formally known as the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, a senior FBI official and a senior CIA analyst concurred with the finding.

The staff report said that bin Laden "explored possible cooperation with Iraq" while in Sudan through 1996, but that "Iraq apparently never responded" to a bin Laden request for help in 1994. The commission cited reports of contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda after bin Laden went to Afghanistan in 1996, adding, "but they do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship. Two senior bin Laden associates have adamantly denied that any ties existed between al Qaeda and Iraq. We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States."

The finding challenges a belief held by large numbers of Americans about al Qaeda's ties to Hussein. According to a Harris poll in late April, a plurality of Americans, 49 percent to 36 percent, believe "clear evidence that Iraq was supporting al Qaeda has been found."

As recently as Monday, Cheney said in a speech that Hussein "had long-established ties with al Qaeda." Bush, asked on Tuesday to verify or qualify that claim, defended it by pointing to Abu Musab Zarqawi, who has taken credit for a wave of attacks in Iraq.

Bush's Democratic challenger, Sen. John F. Kerry (Mass.), sought to profit from the commission's finding. "The administration misled America, and the administration reached too far," Kerry told Michigan Public Radio. "I believe that the 9/11 report, the early evidence, is that they're going to indicate that we didn't have the kind of terrorists links that this administration was asserting. I think that's a very, very serious finding."

A Bush campaign spokesman countered that Kerry himself has said Hussein "supported and harbored terrorist groups." And Cheney's spokesman pointed to a 2002 letter written by CIA Director George J. Tenet stating that "we have solid reporting of senior level contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda going back a decade" and "credible information indicates that Iraq and al Qaeda have discussed safe haven and reciprocal non-aggression." Cheney's office also pointed to a 2003 Tenet statement calling Zarqawi "a senior al Qaeda terrorist associate."

White House spokesman Scott McClellan said the commission finding of long-standing high-level contacts between al Qaeda and Iraq justified the administration's earlier assertions. "We stand behind what was said publicly," he said.

Bush, speaking to troops in Tampa yesterday, did not mention an Iraq-al Qaeda link, saying only that Iraq "sheltered terrorist groups." That was a significantly milder version of the allegations administration officials have made since shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

In late 2001, Cheney said it was "pretty well confirmed" that Sept. 11 mastermind Mohamed Atta met with a senior Iraqi intelligence official before the attacks, in April 2000 in Prague; Cheney later said the meeting could not be proved or disproved.

Bush, in his speech aboard an aircraft carrier on May 1, 2003, asserted: "The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We've removed an ally of al Qaeda and cut off a source of terrorist funding."

In September, Cheney said on NBC's "Meet the Press": "If we're successful in Iraq . . . then we will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base, if you will, the geographic base of the terrorists who had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11."

Speaking about Iraq's alleged links to al Qaeda and the Sept. 11 attacks, Cheney connected Iraq to the 1993 World Trade Center bombing by saying that newly found Iraqi intelligence files in Baghdad showed that a participant in the bombing returned to Iraq and "probably also received financing from the Iraqi government as well as safe haven." He added: "The Iraqi government or the Iraqi intelligence service had a relationship with al Qaeda that stretched back through most of the decade of the '90s."

Shortly after Cheney asserted these links, Bush contradicted him, saying: "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the September 11th." But Bush added: "There's no question that Saddam Hussein had al Qaeda ties."

In January, Cheney repeated his view that Iraq was tied to al Qaeda, saying that "there's overwhelming evidence" of an Iraq-al Qaeda connection. He said he was "very confident there was an established relationship there."

The commission staff, in yesterday's report, said that while bin Laden was in Sudan between 1991 and 1996, a senior Iraqi intelligence officer made three visits to Sudan, and that he had a meeting with bin Laden in 1994. Bin Laden was reported to have sought training camps and assistance in getting weapons, "but Iraq never responded," the staff said. The report said that bin Laden "at one time sponsored anti-Saddam Islamists in Iraqi Kurdistan."

As for the Atta meeting in Prague mentioned by Cheney, the commission staff concluded: "We do not believe that such a meeting occurred." It cited FBI photographic and telephone evidence, along with Czech and U.S. investigations, as well as reports from detainees, including the Iraqi official with whom Atta was alleged to have met. On the 1993 trade center bombing, the staff found "substantial uncertainty" about whether bin Laden and al Qaeda were involved.

At yesterday's hearing, commissioner Fred F. Fielding questioned the staff's finding of no apparent cooperation between bin Laden and Hussein. He pointed to a sentence in the first sealed indictment in 2001 of the al Qaeda members accused of the bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania; that sentence said al Qaeda reached an understanding with Iraq that they would not work against each other and would cooperate on acquiring arms.

Patrick J. Fitzgerald, now a U.S. attorney in Illinois, who oversaw the African bombing case, told the commission that reference was dropped in a superceding indictment because investigators could not confirm al Qaeda's relationship with Iraq as they had done with its ties to Iran, Sudan and Hezbollah. The original material came from an al Qaeda defector who told prosecutors that what he had heard was secondhand.

The staff report on Iraq was brief. Though not confirming any Iraqi collaboration with al Qaeda, it did not specifically address two of the other pieces of evidence the administration has offered to link Iraq to al Qaeda: Zarqawi's Tawhid organization and the Ansar al-Islam group.

In October 2002, Bush described Zarqawi, a Palestinian born in Jordan, as "one very senior al Qaeda leader who received medical treatment in Baghdad this year, and who has been associated with planning for chemical and biological attacks."

Zarqawi wrote a January 2003 letter to bin Laden's lieutenants, intercepted at the Iraqi border, saying that if al Qaeda adopted his approach in Iraq, he would swear "fealty to you [bin Laden] publicly and in the news media."

In March, in a statement to the Senate Armed Services Committee, Tenet described Zarqawi's network as among groups having "links" to al Qaeda but with its own "autonomous leadership . . . own targets [and] they plan their own attacks."

Although Zarqawi may have cooperated with al Qaeda in the past, officials said it is increasingly clear that he has been operating independently of bin Laden's group and has his own network of operatives.

The other group, Ansar al-Islam, began in 2001 among Kurdish Sunni Islamic fundamentalists in northern Iraq, fighting against the two secular Kurdish groups that operated under the protection of the United States. At one point, bin Laden supported Ansar, as did Zarqawi, who is believed to have visited their area more than once. Tenet referred to Ansar as one of the Sunni groups that had benefited from al Qaeda links.



© 2004 The Washington Post Company

so, is al gore going to jump in at the last minute, or not?

i'm thinking the same, but for slightly different reasons than stepping on bill's toes. i think al has found his niche in environmental issues and doesnt really want to run for pres.

well, juliani is out of it. lost in florida.

Even in death he is still the better candidate..

http://www.paulsen.com/pat/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Paulsen