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Crapadilla
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On this little excursion to my secret hideout, I'll be presenting - in brief - some of the results of my ongoing experiments with noises. This thread will be updated every now and then as new intersting results appear.

Hopefully, the following images will be proof enough that there is more to noises in FF than may be apparent at first glance. They key to simulating the complexity of real-world surfaces lies in combining the building blocks that FF provides into more complex noise-generators, yet - sadly - few filters on the library dare tread into this territory. This needs to change... smile;)

Alright then, let's get this rolling. Here are few key 'ingredients' to my noise experiments that any noise chef worth his perlin should ponder:

- Map Inputs are key to complex noises!
- Map the 'Roughness' parameter with another noise to locally introduce surface chaos.
- Handle Roughness with care!
- Don't be afraid to stretch and rotate your noises. Many surfaces do have 'direction' to their chaos.
- Use noise at different scales to layer in different levels of chaos.
- Use Noise Distortion on your noises to add in chaos. If you're especially daring, use a Worley Distortion even!
- Map your Noise Distortion's parameters with other noises.
- Blend your noises. Yes, it's as easy as that!
- Experiment with blend modes and see what a difference it makes!
- Use profile curves! And did I mention: Use profile curves?!
- Map curve components' parameters with another noise (which could in turn be mapped by a profile curve, which... you get the idea)!
- Make your own profile curves!
- Feed a noise and a Noise Gradient into an Elevation Gradient.
- Offset your noises. Use other noises to map the Offset's parameters!
- Got two complex noise generators? Put them together and see what transpires!
- Experiment! Many interesting complex noises are happy accidents!
- Save interesting results (even if intermediary) in their own filter file. You never know when you might need them.

That should do for now. Besides, I've used up all my exclamation marks for the day. Let's see some images... smile:D
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Crapadilla
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Encrusted Debris

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Crapadilla
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Marbled Veins

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Crapadilla
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Tar Pit

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Crapadilla
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Weathered Wood

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Crapadilla
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Pumice

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Crapadilla
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Limestone Cave

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Crapadilla
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Mossy Growth

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Crapadilla
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Crack Melt

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Crapadilla
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Rough Plaster

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Crapadilla
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Variant A. I just exchanging a perlin with a worley noise here.

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Crapadilla
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Another Variant. Just changed a blend mode... smile;)

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Crapadilla
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Just using a different blend mode again. Notice the drastic change in the look of the noise.

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Crapadilla
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More coming tomorrow... smile:D
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Kraellin
Kraellin

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what do you mean by 'map inputs'?
If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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capnsparrow
CapnSparrow

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I think he is referring to any of a components inputs which can be mapped with an image or curve based component, as opposed to a numerical value.

For example: You can plug a 'perlin' noise into the 'roughness' input on a 'cells' noise, and it will create a roughness pattern in the cells, based on the perlin map.

smile:)
Okicyapo
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jffe
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I am not super familiar with the others, and lacking the coloration they are tough to comment on, but that *pumice* example looks great. smile:D

jffe
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onnetz

Posts: 173
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anyone hungry?
perlin noise, cel noise and a wave curve.
The cel noise isn't really necessary for this but it does add a little to it.


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onnetz

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one thing I've noticed and was said in another thread is that most noises with a curve as a profile really slow things down. with perlin somewhat being the exception.

this one could be flames? its perlin with a wave curve as the profile.

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onnetz

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steps are really cool too.. this was a cel noise and a step curve as the profile.

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onnetz

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same thing just a different scale.. I could see this easily being water..

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garbanzo

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thanks for the wonderful tips crapadilla, and for your input too, onnetz. good stuff, i'm going to bookmark this page right now and get experimenting this week!
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Kraellin
Kraellin

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Quote
I think he is referring to any of a components inputs which can be mapped with an image or curve based component, as opposed to a numerical value.
hmmm, well, wouldnt just anything be a map input then? i mean, aside from controls, assemble and extract and those max and min components, just everything else would have map inputs, yes, no? basically, wouldnt it just be the green nodes then?
If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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onnetz

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One thing to note about mapping say one noise to anothers background input, you lose the individual control of parameters like contrast. Its now controlled by the parent in the chain.
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Crapadilla
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Quote
jffe wrote:
lacking the coloration they are tough to comment on


The examples are all surface-filters with just a height map plugged in and diffuse set to white. I'd like to keep it that way to focus on surface (i.e. height) detail in this excursion.

Quote
onnetz wrote:
perlin noise, cel noise and a wave curve.


Another tip:
- High 'Contrast' values lead to 'clipping' (i.e. flat plateaus or valleys on the heightmap), so it is best to keep this parameter as low as possible.

Btw, let's aim at keeping our noise examples as non-synthetic looking as possible. We're trying to imitate real-world surfaces here as best as we can. Many of the library filters just use one standard noise with a few parameters changed, and it kind of gets boring to look at after a while. In contrast, this excursion is about the 'noises seldom seen'. smile;)

Quote
Kraellin wrote:
hmmm, well, wouldnt just anything be a map input then? i mean, aside from controls, assemble and extract and those max and min components, just everything else would have map inputs, yes, no? basically, wouldnt it just be the green nodes then?


Correct. But the key is 'mapping' these 'green nodes' in a meaningful way. This is where the experimentation comes into play...
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onnetz

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no problem.... smile:-)
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

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So, what if I just ripped the innards of that Crapdillo dude's 'Old Parchment' filter and turned them into a surface? Take a look.

Turbulent Sediments?

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Crapadilla
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Even more turbulent...

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Crapadilla
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Now let's change the blend mode to... Darken!

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Crapadilla
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Or maybe set it to Difference...

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Crapadilla
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Seaweed Reefs? (Height map also used as diffuse map)

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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

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For starters, try and experiment with two stone noises (use different variations!) fed into a blend. Feed the blend into the height input of the result component (Don't forget to get rid of that darned default surface color!). See how by using different blend modes, you can drastically change the look of the resulting surface.

Especially usable blend modes are:

- Normal 50% (100% would be a bit boring, no? smile;) )
- Darken & Lighten (Extremely useful for carving out and smoothly 'glueing on' detail, respectively. Try it out on some zero detail stone noises to see the effect)
- Difference (can give interesting results)

- Multiply, Screen, Overlay (might be worth a try for the experiments sake)

Note that the various 'burn', 'dodge' and 'light' blend modes usually introduce 'clamping/clipping' to the height map...

That's bad! smile:puke:
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Crapadilla
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Mossy Rock

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Kraellin
Kraellin

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oh, that last one is excellent!

ok, here's a variation of what dilla is doing. i didnt use a blend mode, though i can see that might work better. what i did was use 3 perlins and plugged one into the noise node of the third and the 2nd plugged into the background node of the third. you lose the blend modes that way, but can still get some interesting results.

this first one is with NO surface height. it's just set to 0 to show what a bland thing this is.

If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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Kraellin
Kraellin

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this one is the same at the last but i kicked the surface height slider up to 83. this was in the 'day entrance' lighting environ.

If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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Kraellin
Kraellin

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and this one is the same as the last one, but i changed the environ to 'church'.

If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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Kraellin
Kraellin

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ok, i went back into mine and re-arranged things to add the blend. i also mapped both noises (the first two) into each other's roughness per dilla's instructions on roughness. yes, you can do recursive mapping on a 'faked' basis. you just have to use a third and duplicate of one of the others.

granite walls, anyone?

If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

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Quote
Kraellin wrote:
granite walls, anyone?


Now we're talkin' Noise Lab! smile:D
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Crapadilla
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Here there be spiders...


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Kraellin
Kraellin

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thanks, dilla. you've given some excellent tips in all this. i simply borrowed some. the 'granite' showed up when i hit the randomizer. i was very pleasantly surprised. i've used perlin and other noises quite a bit, but those extra tips really added some pizazz.

and you've got some great examples here. that spider piece i would call asbestos fiber. very cool smile:)

and the diversity of these is really quite amazing. i didnt even use any distortions to get get mine. but, i'll be adding some in. i did try one with an elevation gradient, but didnt like that particular line of thought on that one, but i've found in the past that the elevation gradient is a great way to take any of these noise filters and add color to them. you simply plug the noise into the 'elevation' and the gradient components into the 'gradient' node, and voila', intstant colored noises.

good thread smile:)
If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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Kraellin
Kraellin

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this one isnt quite as spectacular as some, but it reminded me of driftwood, so i'm throwing it in. i also added in two noise distortions, one after each perlin. what's nice about the noise distortions is that, naturally, you get all the distortion, but you can also zero it out and have just whatever effect the perlins produce without the distortion. and, they are fast, so you lose almost nothing by adding them.

If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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Crapadilla
lvl 52 Filter Weaver and Official "Filter Forge Seer"

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Thanks, Kraellin.

I was hoping that this thread would spark some interest in noise experimentation, so that we are all spared the "drag-slap-dash-done" noise filters in the future (of which there are too many, IMO).

Also, creating interesting and realistic looking noise-generators isn't hard, and doesn't take wiring hundreds of components. In fact, it takes just a handful of them, carefully selected and tweaked, and I've given all the hints as to which ones I am talking about. smile;)
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Crapadilla
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Thick Plaster? Rough chiseled stone walls?

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Kraellin
Kraellin

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ah, good rough plaster, though you've got a bit of clipping in this one. still, that's covered by the fact it's plaster and the trowel simply smoothed that part smile:)

ok, here's my work environment via a screenshot. notice the custom lighting environment and how it affects the effect. this is another aspect of these noise generators that shld be stressed; they are a great way to look at and understand how surface filters work and how lighting environments work. you really get a good look at the process with these.

If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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Kraellin
Kraellin

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Quote
Also, creating interesting and realistic looking noise-generators isn't hard, and doesn't take wiring hundreds of components. In fact, it takes just a handful of them, carefully selected and tweaked, and I've given all the hints as to which ones I am talking about.
yup. i made that granite one with just four components and the results component, 3 perlins and a blend.
If wishes were horses... there'd be a whole lot of horse crap to clean up!

Craig
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