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DJI
Official Bologna Tester

Posts: 4583
Filters: 257
Hey! I'm serious about getting and answer to this question. Does anybody have a theory as to why the brain can't make up it's mind as to what the gradient profile of an image like this should look like? smile:?:
"Art is quite useless." Oscar Wilde
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earthbound
Posts: 97
Filters: 1
I'll have a look at that.

Possibly related, I've been getting ideas for optical illusions in art from the TV show "Brain Games" (on NETFLIX). Maybe something(s) illuminated in that show could help you out.
You refer to the prophecy of the pastry that will bring balance to the Force. And you believe it's this...donut?
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DJI
Official Bologna Tester

Posts: 4583
Filters: 257
Thanx Earthbound! smile:D I really appreciate your responding to my question. smile:) smile;)
"Art is quite useless." Oscar Wilde
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Rachel Duim
So Called Tortured Artist

Posts: 2498
Filters: 188
I think this is a classic case of the "brain" making a decision about which "edges" to process when viewing an area or object. We are hard wired to understand shadows, and the brain then attempts to create a reasonable 3d representation of what it thinks it sees.

An illusion using this concept is a Rubin Vase. Another example in graphic art would be the drop shadow. By placing a darker (or lighter) area around an object only on certain sides creates the illusion of depth where there really is none. Our brain says it is 3d. My 2 cents. smile8)
Math meets art meets psychedelia.
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DJI
Official Bologna Tester

Posts: 4583
Filters: 257
Thanx Rick Duim! smile:D That's very interesting. smile:) I definitely need to do more research into to this stuff. Maybe understanding how the brain process information will help me make better filters. Thanx to you and earthbound again. smile:D
"Art is quite useless." Oscar Wilde
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SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12298
Filters: 35
Quote
DJI wrote:
Hey! I'm serious about getting and answer to this question. Does anybody have a theory as to why the brain can't make up it's mind as to what the gradient profile of an image like this should look like?


I could help if I could understand the question, I mean that I do not know what is a gradient profile of an image "like this"?, is missing a image or I am missing something? as it seems that Rick Duim and earthbound have understood it
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DJI
Official Bologna Tester

Posts: 4583
Filters: 257
Hi SpaceRay. smile:D The image is on the bottom of the last page. This is it. Please go back one page and read the first part of my posting. smile:)

"Art is quite useless." Oscar Wilde
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SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12298
Filters: 35
OH! thanks DJI, I knew I was missing something smile;) smile:D , will have to see the filter to know about it
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Ramlyn
Ramlyn

Posts: 2930
Filters: 691
Many times working on the Lightning can help.
Changing the Ambience and/or the Environment can give stronger or lighter depth feeling (but it may also slow down the filter, depending on what you do).
Adding lights with a particular direction, can take away the shadow or put shadow on some area.

Anyway your filter already looks good, I think.
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DJI
Official Bologna Tester

Posts: 4583
Filters: 257
Thanx SpaceRay & Ramlyn. smile:D The filter should appear in the library Monday. And Ramlyn,I did do some tinkering about with lighting & Environment etc. in a few of the presets but it really diden't change the phenomena I'm speaking of. smile:) I've made 10 more presets and I'll post that source file when the filter is posted. smile:D Thanx everyone for all of your comments. Over and out. smile:) smile;)
"Art is quite useless." Oscar Wilde
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ThreeDee
Lost in Space

Posts: 1672
Filters: 112
Quote
DJI wrote:Does anybody have a theory as to why the brain can't make up it's mind as to what the gradient profile of an image like this should look like?


Two thoughts:

1) Lighting and shadows -- if you don't know the direction the light is coming from, the interpretation of what is up and what is down can be reversed. Looking at images showing planets or moons with impact craters which show only a section of the surface, where it is not obvious where the light is shining from, you can easily mistake the light direction and things that go up seem to go down and vice versa.

2) Color depth -- some colors seem closer than others: red is close while blue is far away. That has to do with light wavelengths and our being subjected to aerial perspective (blue in the distance).
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DJI
Official Bologna Tester

Posts: 4583
Filters: 257
Fascinating! smile:D Thanx ThreeDee. smile:) I'm going to keep that in mind. smile:) smile;)
"Art is quite useless." Oscar Wilde
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Miss Fancy Pants
Graphic Designer
Posts: 7
Here are things I use ad nauseum that I wasn't able to find (but I'm new so excuse me if I just missed these out there).
•Paint drips that run top to bottom using the color at the top of the base image or color controls but have some height/bevel to them.
•A whole image full of splatters with color control. If I have to go in and adj color I might as well use my own brushes.
•Scratches/rips that cut out- I found one called monster scratch (so close) but it only has option for three. Nearly all my requests will be for four or five because most mascots have that many claws.
•Chinelle (letterman jacket letters) This should be really doable but I'm too green. This needs to have 3 color controls as the client is sure to want their colors applied. chinelle with an outline braid and felt border.
•a transparent background rock option which I would most likely use to create letters out of rock so it needs to follow the shape but hop off around the highlights so it isn't perfect like rough hewn stone. Same thing for metal, paint, fur, bubbles, candy, clowds(sky writer would be fun)and or any fun patterns...
•scratches that follow roughly around a subject creating a tweakable grungy outline
•footprints or animal prints in sand/dirt
•I'm sick of triangles but the customers keep asking- blame the default backgrounds.
•Polygons that have gradients from the image within them.
Miss Fancy Pants
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Rachel Duim
So Called Tortured Artist

Posts: 2498
Filters: 188
Quote
Polygons that have gradients from the image within them


Is this what you had in mind? If so I will post the filter. It's a modified version of Dots and Stars.

Math meets art meets psychedelia.
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Rachel Duim
So Called Tortured Artist

Posts: 2498
Filters: 188
Here is a "painterly" version using the gradient with triangle "brushes".

Math meets art meets psychedelia.
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Miss Fancy Pants
Graphic Designer
Posts: 7
Thanks Rick. The kids love when we do this kind of thing for them but it means working with sketchy online stuff previously. These are great. I suppose I should have said that you really can't make too much of that sort of thing when it comes to the polygons.
Miss Fancy Pants
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Rachel Duim
So Called Tortured Artist

Posts: 2498
Filters: 188
Here are the 2 filters that produced these. You need FF 5 for both of these filters. Note that Polygon Variation 7 produces random shapes.

Dots and Stars v2.ffxml
Math meets art meets psychedelia.
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Rachel Duim
So Called Tortured Artist

Posts: 2498
Filters: 188
Here is the other gradient polygon filter. I'll probably do more development on this one and release it.

Dots and Stars Painter.ffxml
Math meets art meets psychedelia.
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LexArt
LexArt

Posts: 256
Quote

Polygons that have gradients from the image within them


Here I have found this gradients circles that maybe it could be useful in some way

Gradient Circles by Skybase

You can change the circles to polygons to get the same effect
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Miss Fancy Pants
Graphic Designer
Posts: 7
Thanks LexArt these are all good. I wouldn't have thought to search for circles. We do a lot of gloss and raised gloss that would look really cool on something like this with a matte background and matte text on top.
Miss Fancy Pants
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Skybase
2D/3D Generalist

Posts: 4025
Filters: 76
Quote
You can change the circles to polygons to get the same effect

Already did the hard work for people.

https://filterforge.com/filters/10705.html

Also check the comments section for an "image based" version.
https://filterforge.com/forum/read.php...sage107073
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ddaydreams
Frank Hawkins
Posts: 412
Filters: 1
I liked the apparent depth on this and the voroni cells within cells. Especially like the lefthand side. I was wondering if there's an FF filter that can generate a similar pattern and have that depth look as well? If not then this a filter request.
Here's where I got the picture.
rickosborne.org

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LexArt
LexArt

Posts: 256
Quote
ddaydreams wrote:
I liked the apparent depth on this and the voroni cells within cells


Yes, this is a good idea and like much the well done and beautiful voronoi cells you are showing, I do not know if this would be possible in FF
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ThreeDee
Lost in Space

Posts: 1672
Filters: 112
The cell pattern is different, but it is possible to layer them for a similar effect.

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Erik Pedersen
Goggerfett

Posts: 290
smile:ff: I'd love to play around with that, ThreeDee!!! Looks AWESOME!
The Joy is in The Work
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ddaydreams
Frank Hawkins
Posts: 412
Filters: 1
Hey threedee
that's real good, I did not think of layers, but yes if drop show layers were used that would work well
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SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12298
Filters: 35
Quote
ThreeDee wrote:
The cell pattern is different, but it is possible to layer them for a similar effect.


WOW!!!! WOW!!!! This is awesome and amazing what you have done and is really very similar to the original. congratulations for the great work and know expertly how to make it and spend the time to do it, I admire that you know so much about FF

Like Erik, I would also love much to know how it is made

thanks
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SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12298
Filters: 35
Quote
ddaydreams wrote:
that's real good, I did not think of layers, but yes if drop show layers were used that would work well


I think the great and excellent Fast Cast Shadows by ThreeDee could work nice on this

Quote
Miss Fancy Pants wrote before the Rick Duim examples here above:
Here are things I use ad nauseum that I wasn't able to find (but I'm new so excuse me if I just missed these out there).


I think that it would be good if there was more specific examples with screenshots or graphic examples
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LexArt
LexArt

Posts: 256
Quote
ThreeDee wrote:
he cell pattern is different, but it is possible to layer them for a similar effect.


This is very good and well done and it looks similar to the original without the shadows, cool and beautiful complex pattern
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Miss Fancy Pants
Graphic Designer
Posts: 7
Quote
SpaceRay wrote:
I think that it would be good if there was more specific examples with screenshots or graphic examples


When I was thinking of the polygons with (ps term) average fills or gradient fills.. I was thinking of this background I did. I want to do something similar. I like the softness of the color so you can tell it was a sunrise. I added a couple layers in PS for focus and drama. Circles forever by skybase is wonderful. Galaxy 3-6 by Ramlyn is also has a lot of potential for me. Polygon painting was very close but some segments seem to be multiplied. I just love the shapes applied to natural landscapes. So far I've been getting this look using online software one called triangulation.

Miss Fancy Pants
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Miss Fancy Pants
Graphic Designer
Posts: 7
Here are the two effects side by side to compare. Left is circles forever and right is triangulation, an online generator. So close, definitely usable but, the soft quality of color is what I want. I think tweaking an existing filter would accomplish this.

Miss Fancy Pants
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ddaydreams
Frank Hawkins
Posts: 412
Filters: 1
Thanks ThreeDee for making that image.I was on the road so my former comment was short.
This looks like 3 itenerations of cell walls and a color layer. Did you make a FF filter that can create those 4 layers separately and then combine them in photoshop?

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Ramlyn
Ramlyn

Posts: 2930
Filters: 691
No. You can do all just using FF and simply connecting 3 Stones components.

Set 3 different size Stones components : small, medium and large.
Connect the small Stones to the Background plug of the medium Stones.
Connect the medium Stone to the background plug of the large stone.

For the color, as you can see from the picture, it is set as the medium stones size.
You can do a medium Stones component, selecting Solid Fill.
Connect it to the background of small Stones ( or blend it with Small stones, depending on the effect you want to give.
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LexArt
LexArt

Posts: 256
Quote
Ramlyn wrote:
No. You can do all just using FF and simply connecting 3 Stones components.


Thanks for explaining how this may be done, will try it and see if I can make what you suggest and how it works
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Rachel Duim
So Called Tortured Artist

Posts: 2498
Filters: 188
Here's my take on this using layered cells. I'm not sure on the technique, so I made it up as I went along..

Layered Cells test version.ffxml
Math meets art meets psychedelia.
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Rachel Duim
So Called Tortured Artist

Posts: 2498
Filters: 188
And one of the presets.

Math meets art meets psychedelia.
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ddaydreams
Frank Hawkins
Posts: 412
Filters: 1
Thanks to all for the helpful info. And I'm trying to add depth to Ricks test version. Thanks Rick smile:) Trying to add depth to make it more like threedees post, but so far no luck. Rather than depth from shadows I'm just making the whole image darker. I wonder what Threedee did for depth.
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Rachel Duim
So Called Tortured Artist

Posts: 2498
Filters: 188
Ok Frank, here is a version with hard coded drop shadows for layers 1 & 2. It looks like this...

Math meets art meets psychedelia.
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Rachel Duim
So Called Tortured Artist

Posts: 2498
Filters: 188
And here is the filter.

Layered Cells test version 2.ffxml
Math meets art meets psychedelia.
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Sunnytime
Sunnytime
Posts: 4
I am fascinated from your creativity, altering filters and making new ones. I work with Filter Forge a lot, but so far only using filters as they are (which is still great, with all the opportunities) But now I do have a "stupid" question: when you post links to the ffxml files here in the forums - are these different versions of filters, that are not available in the regular Filter section? And how can I try them? With a right click, I can kind of "load imbedded file", is that what I have to do and then later load it from the Filter Forge app?
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Rachel Duim
So Called Tortured Artist

Posts: 2498
Filters: 188
You should be able to click on the .ffxml link and it is then placed in your My Filters folder in the left upper pane of FF and it should run automatically. If this does not work, and the link below does not help, contact support.

Here is a link on downloading filters: Download Help.

And yes, the filters in the forum are not part of the regular library.

Also note that filters made in Filter Forge 5 will not work in Filter Forge 4.
Math meets art meets psychedelia.
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ddaydreams
Frank Hawkins
Posts: 412
Filters: 1
Hi Rick.
Thanks for posting the filter. It's a beautiful thing. In the editor I can see the process you used for shadows and WOW it really makes the image pop. It does make me wonder if there is a way for each cell to have it's own set of complete smaller cells within that stop at each host cells edge. If that makes any sense.

Looking at this in the editor makes me want experiment with other shapes such as caustics lines or rounded cells.
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Sunnytime
Sunnytime
Posts: 4
Thank you very much Rick, I will try that out. I have Filter Forge 5, so I should be fine.
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LexArt
LexArt

Posts: 256
Thanks very much Rick duim for making and sharing this beautiful and well done filter, like it
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Rachel Duim
So Called Tortured Artist

Posts: 2498
Filters: 188
You are all welcome! smile:) Thanks must go to ThreeDee, Ramlyn and ddaydreams for the ideas that got this going.
Math meets art meets psychedelia.
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