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xirja
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...Boing

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xirja
xirja.com

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xirja
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xirja
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Can anyone see what I need to do now with this? I notice that the low areas are being pinched and should be broadening and washing away, but... Oh the tedium of custom erosion in FF!

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xirja
xirja.com

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Here are a few tips on doing fluvial-like erosion in FF, that I've discovered so far:


1) Cleaving.

Notice how a perfect sphere when run through the erosion device in Bryce in non-uniform?
There is asymmetry introduced into the system for a reason.

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When I posted this image on the last page:

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The cleaving method I was using was a non-gaussian Blur (square) attached to a Percentile component. It did a good job, but there were unnecessary rectangular(ities). You can flip them 45 degrees and blend, but sill not the ideal. Then it occurred to me that the Noise Distortion component was the best cleaving device.
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xirja
xirja.com

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2) Source.

Starting with an adequate source image may make the cleaving requirement obsolete. If you want to erode an image of a Lionfish, then you will probably need to use cleaving, but if you have a multi-fractal noise as the source then you can proceed without it. There is uncertainty about what characteristics a noise must have to be best suited for an eroded terrain, and this is going to require much more investigation. The following source took 52 seconds to render at 1200 x 1200 px 25 AA and uses a 2 iteration offset method. It is shown as displaced/rendered in Blender and is used as the starting comparison to the subsequent eroded images.

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xirja
xirja.com

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3) Looped Bitmap-based components not necessary.

Initially the high quality erosion method I envisioned, made use of Bitmap-based components in the loop, so I had to get one image output sent back to the input and repeat. See:

https://www.filterforge.com/features/v...sions.html

"Bitmap-based components such as Blur, Sharpen or High Pass cannot be used inside the loop. That would require rebuilding the entire input and output bitmap caches for each such component for each loop iteration, which would lead to insane memory requirements."

As I was testing the differences in the methods (preset 1 = manual loop, preset 2 = loop without Bitmap-based components):

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xirja
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It seemed like maybe there was a way to get one to look like the other. A major consideration was the speed of the process. 10 minutes versus 1 was enough to keep me whittling this stick. Then as I was seeing that some middle ground between the deep channels and the flat plains was the ideal:

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xirja
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4) Approach FF as more of a science than an art.

While the output of FF and other computer art softwares can be considered art, the method to create such visuals is not. If you are passionate about art and you can put your emotions into your work, by all means pick up a paint brush and have fun. But this is computer science, and as such if you want to successfully create stunning visuals, be prepared for a very dry and stern set of strictures and a lot of them. Make careful note of what doesn't work and why, and chart your course methodically forward. Lecture off. Graphics on!

Indeed a rough approximation of fluvial erosion can be had in FF without needing Bitmap-based components in the loop. Not the beautiful smooth deep channels, but something that does make me smile that in 52 seconds (2 iteration source generation) plus 31 seconds (10 iteration erosion) equals FF is nice:

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ddaydreams
Frank Hawkins
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Regarding your post on March 29, 2017 3:29 pm where you showing 2 pictures. The bottom one of those 2 that is very deeply textured.
I love that. It's a beautiful stylized landscape. Since stylized landscape is my main artform I would love to dig in to that filter and make some height maps for use in VUE. So If you ever share this filter, please let me know.
I have World Machine and vue and the now ancient Bryce.
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xirja
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Cool, thanks, will do. I was using the spherical gradient ThreeDee posted here: https://www.filterforge.com/forum/read...0&TID=6294 as a simple example of the random cleaving as seen in Bryce. World machine is definitely what I am aiming to emulate or surpass here.
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xirja
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D'oh and

5) Make sure you use an accurate normal calculation! smile:D (https://filterforge.com/forum/read.php?FID=5&TID=8295)

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ddaydreams
Frank Hawkins
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Wow, that really has a nice flow to it. Beautiful smile:)
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xirja
xirja.com

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smile:) I'm really enjoying your Eastern Sierra gallery prints. Great flow there too! smile:)

Working on other cleaving methods such as anti-aliasing and multi-fractal blending is promising. Following are 7 examples of the erosion of a gradient sphere cleaved by spheres in spheres. Many thanks to uberzev (https://www.filterforge.com/filters/5445.html) for a simple and quick perfect hexagonal snippet. The methods I had been using were with a bomber and very slow when in the rather large erosion chain.

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xirja
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cleaving2

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xirja
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cleaving3

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xirja
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cleaving4

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xirja
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cleaving5

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xirja
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...and finally, using the above as a displacement map...

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ddaydreams
Frank Hawkins
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So let me see if I'm understanding what has happened to get the stylized mountain look you named Erosiom.
Open BryceErosion4.jpg~original 388 x 388 in FF, do not upres it
Then apply a preset 1 or 2 from another FF filter (I don't know the name of that filter that's showing lionfish)
Then manualy apply that unknown filter 10 times rather than a loop componant.
Then set FF to output to give a 1200 x 1200 hieght or/alpha/bumpmap
Then from that map make an FF normal map by bump to normal at the link you mentioned.
Then both 1200 x 1200 maps are used in blender to give the final stylized mountain scene that you named Erosiom

Am I following ok? seems I may be missing a thing or 2
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xirja
xirja.com

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The process for http://www.xirja.com/Erosion.jpg is just:

1. Create mountain like noise in FF
2. Erode in FF
3. Displace in Blender

Of course the first two steps are not that easy in and of themselves, but...

- Bryce was not used at all. I referenced that image because it was a simple example of the erosion effect. The starting source was more like https://www.filterforge.com/upload/for...aphic1.jpg
(it is a custom private filter made by me and not by Sphinx, despite what the image says).
- The Lionfish image shows the 'Fluvial' erosion filter at work (again another custom private filter). For the best results, the 'Fluvial' erosion filter, as you said, is manually run multiple times.
- From the beginning of the process, the image size should be the size you want, or greater.
- The normal issue is internal to the 'Fluvial' erosion process. The regular B&W output from FF is used for bump coloring and displacement in Blender. EXR or TIFF 32-bit float formats have the least visible banding due to rounding.

The only public filter that I know of, that comes the closest to steps one or two, is https://www.filterforge.com/filters/12449.html, but even she was asking how I did this. smile;)

And to that, I must add, I can neither confirm nor deny that I have any recollection. smile:D
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ddaydreams
Frank Hawkins
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Thanks soo much for the explanation of the process and links. I'll have much fun with that when I have some play time next week. smile;) I also private messaged you a couple of days ago.

Also I was wondering if you would mind if I shared your image http://www.xirja.com/Erosion.jpg on a few forums so I can get help trying to achieve this look in Vue, Bryce or World Machine, since I'm unfamiliar with blender.

Do you have a world machine reference photo link that shows the look you trying emulate.

Thanks
Again
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xirja
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Surely, if you could let me know if you find any similar methods or otherwise, it would be helpful. The image is in the wild, so feel free to link to it. The source image I'll consider posting. There really was no look I was going for in particular, just a nice smooth extremely eroded fractal like thingy. smile:beer:
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ddaydreams
Frank Hawkins
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I'm a bit obsessed with this style so I'll probably find a way using Vue or Bryce or world machine as the renderer. If I can get close enough to that look I'll let you know what I did to produce that. And yes the source image or even part of it would be helpful so I can check it out. I of corse don't want to copy your art piece but I do have some use for the general style both as is and as a starting point futher style development. Also even a piece of the final displacement map, like a quarter section would be helpful. Looking at a flat version helps me see how it's working.

If I'm asking too much, excuse me please, it's just that this style really hits something in deep in me. I'm very happy with help thus far given. If you did not help any more than you already have. I would still be happy.
Thanks
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ddaydreams
Frank Hawkins
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Thanks for mentioning the EXR or TIFF 32-bit float formats, had not occurred to me. I probably would have frustrated myself with some 16 bit format by trying to smooth out the resulting banding/chunkiness of the geometry, thus losing some depth and detail.
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xirja
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Never thought that in little over a month I'd be licking something like Diffusion Limited Aggregation in FF (https://www.filterforge.com/forum/read...TID=14672), but it seems to be so, albeit in a roundabout fashion. So, if you can construct an image like this:

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xirja
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Then there is no need to pre-cleave the image, and you can then even erode the image using the loop, without having to manually go from output to input several times (of course doing so increases the smoothness because you can have a blur, etc. in the loop). It's not suitable for terrain, but it's stylistically nice:

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xirja
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Doing a frame by frame animation offsetting one of the base perlin parameters, gives (grab your barf bags):

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xirja
xirja.com

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Taking the stock FF Garlic image and trying to erode it is fruitless, because there is very little fine scale variability (see 'Derivative'), but using 'Noise Distort' to cleave the image, even slightly, the result is quite pleasant artistically with some 'Sharpening':

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xirja
xirja.com

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Still looking into other more regular cleaving methods (see Bomber Offset without limits
https://www.filterforge.com/forum/read...&TID=9796) yielded the snowflake images above and
has great potential for shrubbery and the like:

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xirja
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and crystallographic elements as well:

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ddaydreams
Frank Hawkins
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Love the animation. However It reminds me of the last sight of something being digested by some type of coral-dwelling sealife. Or maybe what it would feel like to be covered in caterpillars
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xirja
xirja.com

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Yep, a bit intense, but I had to see what the output was like. It is 200 frames, but I might try 1000 to smooth it out temporally. Fast moving bacteriophages maybe? A revisit of the hyper-dynamic stuff on page 12. I think Betis said it best, "BLEUCH". smile:|
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mbug90
Posts: 5
How does one make filters like these? The PPL and the ones on the first page interest me greatly.
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xirja
xirja.com

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Why its simply just a matter of...

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xirja
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Getting some great realism going quickly with the help of manuelbastioni.com...

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xirja
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Embossing template made in FF ofcourse... smile;)

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xirja
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Printing, finishing, styling, lighting, photography, modeling, hair, makeup, good god! smile:|

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xirja
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Thinking I might update the 2008 catalog (http://www.xirja.com/2008.html) with a foggy mountainous backdrop:

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xirja
xirja.com

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More work on basic noise structures:

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xirja
xirja.com

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BNS2:

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xirja
xirja.com

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BNS3:

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xirja
xirja.com

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River systems:

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xirja
xirja.com

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and of course, still putting it all together...

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xirja
xirja.com

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...but I know for sure that mountain-lightning-cloud-ferns exist, in the world!

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