Only 20 presets per filter allowed?

Recently, the filter submission wizard kindly informed me on the current 20 preset limitation per filter. News to me! Apparently, it didn't share my enthusiasm for filters that come with a large number of presets just for the sake of user convenience.

Anyway, I suspect there is a reasoning behind this tiny annoyance, but I certainly hope for this limitation to ultimately be removed completely.

There certainly is a point to encouraging a quality before quantity approach when it comes to presets.

Normally, I would just create the 9 presets that end up on the web library, and try to make these as representative of the filters' abilities as possible. But, since apparently only the first 9 presets get rendered for the library anyway, why impose this arbitrary limit of 20 presets?

For complex noise-based generator type filters, there are often so many interesting patterns and looks worth preserving for other users that - in my humble opinion - the 20 preset limit becomes a hindrance. I would make the first 9 presets as good as possible, and thereafter provide a broad spectrum of presets for the user to browse though.

Another milestone! Congratulations Vlad.

I think that the 20 presets are ok, otherwise you don't leave too much option for the user to play with the filter/texture and create him/her own variation without being too similar from the "100" presets.

I dunno 8-12 seems like more than enough to get the idea across. Plus, people making 100 presets is both 1) kinda a waste of time that they could be spending making it a better filter, or making a totally different filter, and 2) kind of an unfair advantage for them, since many users would download filters with more presets first. Ideally, a number of presets would be chosen, and required, for each filter, somewhere around 10 or a dozen seems reasonable. But, that's just my take on it, and I ain't been asked or elected to decide, so yer all safe so far ha-ha.

jffe

Make more than 1 filter out of it then ? If it can't be expressed in 1/2 a dozen examples, then it's more than one filter needs 2 B, (historically speaking at least anyways), and could be simplified for the end users' sake. *shrug*

jffe

No problem, there's room for all kinds of filters. I just try to look at it from a customer p.o.v., and they usually always want quick & very specified results, I know I do if I'm paying for software, as opposed to using badly labelled/sorted/slow freeware. Not to say that a complicated filter is bad or something like crappy freeware, just saying, at it's best, it should make itself less complicated, under the hood, so people can make use of it better/faster/easier is all. I'm sure some artist types will find other uses than quick & easy results and all, but chances are, they'll make their own filters, and that makes it pointless for me to get too in depth with them. Just my perspective, and it's just one of many I realize. Peace.

jffe

Quote
Vladimir Golovin wrote: "Less is more".

Psst! You're scaring away all the "Less is a bore" types...

I have looking for information about the preset limit number and when searching in the forum I have found this thread FR OM 2006 !!!

Please, Is still the 20 preset limit in the FF 3.0 ???

When this thread was made it was the FF 1.0 and Vladimir wrote this

Quote
Vladimir Golovin wrote in 2006: We can't remove the lim it completely, but we can increase the count to, say, 100 presets or so. We'll look into it.

Please, have finally the limit been risen from 20 to 100 (or whatever) since FF 1.0 ?

Quote
Ghislaine wrote: It would be fine to get able for more then 20 presets, because most of the time I have nearly 30 and more, so for the submission, I have to reject a lot of presets.

WOW, is very bas that you have to reject and remove a lot of presets that could be very useful and interesting.

Thanks, from your answer I can guess that the 20 preset lim it is STILL present

So in 6 years Vladimir is STILL looking into it ????

He said that it would be possible to be risen from 20 to 100 in 2006, and 6 years later in 2012 has NOT been done yet ?

Why the 20 presets has not been raisen ?

How is possible that in FF 3.0 is the same as in FF 1.0 ?

Quote
Ghislaine wrote: Good question ! I'm still waiting for the answer... before I get white hairs...

Morgantao have given already the answer for this, we have been already waiting 6 YEARS for updating this very simple thing from 20 to a higher value, and he said that we will have to wait another 202 years more !!

Quote
Morgantao wrote: Sorry, that option is to be implemented in FF 136 (Coming out September 2214). Untill then there's nothing you can do to have any idea what's going on in the presets allowed.

Quote
Morgantao wrote: Actually, upping the limit is not such a difficult thing, and I suppose it could be done in only 57 years, not 202, SpaceRay

Yes, you are right, it could be done probably faster, in just only 57 years but I am afraid that by that time I will be tired and bored to death of waiting for it

If we have already waited 6 years for this, we can wait much more years until FF decides to make something about this

Why this has not been done yet ? I suposse that is not ONLY to change the 20 limit and put 50 instead, because I think that probably there must be technical reasons that needs to care about, as this depends also on the server of the FF online library and probably on the FF software itself.

Myself I will not submit a filter with more then 20 presets....For one, since the presets are rendered on the authors machine when submitting I do not want to sit for hours rendering all those presets before submitting.....TO get the filters use accross to the user I do not think that more then 20 presets are needed.....

You are right Spaceray. The choice between one an another one is a very hard work. Because if I create 30 presets, it is because I love the 30. And as I usualy have a lot of componenmts in my filters, I have a lot of variations to offer but I'm limited and cannot offer all the possibilities that my filters can do to the users.

Quote
Ghislaine wrote: You are right Spaceray. The choice between one an another one is a very hard work. Because if I create 30 presets, it is because I love the 30. And as I usualy have a lot of componenmts in my filters, I have a lot of variations to offer but I'm limited and cannot offer all the possibilities that my filters can do to the users.

It is a pity and regreatably bad that you HAVE to choose and reject 10 of them because is not allowed more than 20. You love and like much those 30, so why have to work out and decide which presets must die?

Quote
Morgantao wrote: I think that it should be the author's decision how many presets to include. Upping the limit to 50 would be very welcome.

YES! YES! YES! It should be the authors decision how many presets decides and wants to include and not have the problem of HAVING to reject some beautiful and interesting presets you could have (as it happened with Ghislaine) because the limit is JUST 20 presets.

About the second part, I really do not have an answer to this, as I do not know.Sorry

Nothing...

Quote
Morgantao wrote: Nothing...

Hello again, I have more NOTHING here

Another point of view is that I don't want more than 20 factory presets from authors, for a number of reasons.

There is no numbering on preset or drag and drop of presets to re-organise easily [or find a previous variant thats been used ].
I always make my own presets for a job/personnel project and don't want to wade through hundreds of factory preset to get to my own [especially with no numbering to quickly find my favorites ].
I think users shouldn't be hand fed every variation a filter can make, allowing them the freedom to discover and individualize the result. 20 preset is more than enough to show the range possible with a filter.
And lastly from the authors perspective, it would and is painful waiting for presets to render when uploading to the library [ I realize your not saying it will compulsory to upload a filter with say one hundred preset ]

Quote
Carl wrote: Another point of view is that I don't want more than 20 factory presets fr om authors, for a number of reasons. There is no numbering on preset or drag and drop of presets to re-organise easily [or find a previous variant thats been used ].

YES! I agree you are right, this is a very bad thing for presets, and there is no name or numbering, and you CAN´T place the presets wh ere you want and ove and re-organize them as choose the ones you like most and put them first.

ALSO there is NO way to identify and difference the factory given presets fr om your OWN presets.

Also thre is no way to choose your favorites presets.

Quote
Carl wrote: I always make my own presets for a job/personnel project and don't want to wade through hundreds of factory preset to get to my own [especially with no numbering to quickly find my favorites ].

Of course that you are free and is good always to make your own and personal presets customized to what you want and need.

WHO SAID I WANT HUNDREDS OF PRESETS ?

I just suggested to have around 40 presets that I think would be enough for most filters. I agree that it would be bad to have hundreds of factory presets and it would really be nearly impossible for the author to make so many interesting and different presets, so there is no point here.

THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED A DELETE KEY TO ELIMINATE THE PRESETS YOU DO NOT WANT

If you do not want to have many presets you are always free to DELETE all the presets you do not want, you are NEVER forced to keep ALL the factory presets inside the filter.

So if you feel bad about having so many presets you are always free to delete all the ones that is distracting and blocking you fr om making your work efficiently and easily.

Why should all the other users of the world DO NOT HAVE at least 30 or 40 factory presets because you need to make many of your own presets for your works ?

Does everybody use FF in the same way like you do ?

ALTERNATIVE TO HAVING 30-40 FACTORY PRESETS AND HAVE FREE SPACE FOR YOUR OWN PRESETS

I have not tried this myself to see if it works BUT I think that there could be a possible alternative and it is to MAKE A COPY BACKUP of your choosen filter that you need to work with, so you sel ect the filter in FF library list and use CTRL + L keys and it will open then Library folder so you can sel ect and COPY the identified filter and so you will have a backup.

Then as you a copy of the filter saved, you can delete and remove all the presets that is stopping and blocking you fr om getting your job done, and keep only the presets that you really want

And you will have always a copy of all the factory presets in the backup copy.

Quote
Carl wrote: I think users shouldn't be hand fed every variation a filter can make, allowing them the freedom to discover and individualize the result. 20 preset is more than enough to show the range possible with a filter.

Sorry, BUT I do not agree. Please answer me to the following:

Why not a user shouldn´t be given MANY (not all and every one) of the most important, interesting and useful variations?

So having at least 30 or 40 factory presets will block you, tie you, and you will loose all the freedom to discover and individualize the result ?

If having 30 or 40 factory presets user will loose the free choice and will not be able to make their own presets fr om experimenting with the setting ?

If you like to much more to diacover the filter and make your own presets, there could be ALSO others persons that will NOT want to do this, or do not know how to make it, or does not the multiple possible variations of a filter.

Why spend time to find the possible variations when is the author who KNOWS BEST how it´s own filter works and is the one that could show through factory presets the best possible variations his own filter could have?

If having 30 or 40 factory presets user will loose the free choice and will not be able to make their own presets fr om experimenting with the setting ?

IT DEPENDS ON THE KIND OF FILTER if it is needed 5, 10, 15, 20 or 40 presets to show to show the range possible effects, on some filters is really enough with 5, other is enough with 10 and some would really need 30 or more. Why have the 20 lim it?

Quote
Carl wrote: And lastly fr om the authors perspective, it would and is painful waiting for presets to render when uploading to the library [ I realize your not saying it will compulsory to upload a filter with say one hundred preset ]

I have said that the filter author already knows that you will be forced, is compulsory, you are obliged and MUST render all the choosen presets when uploading and submitting the filter.

For ALL and everyone of the FF users, this is a PAINFUL WAITING ?

If it painful for you, well, do not do it, you are NEVER forced to make 20 presets, even you can submit a filter with just 1 or 2 presets.

It´s up to you, and It´s the author´s decision and free choice how many presets he wants to add to the filter, and if you feel bad about it, do not do it.

And if you WANT and do not care about the waiting and does not feel it like painful, and feels MORE painful to delete some presets already done and that loves to have BUT CAN´T do it because of the 20 preset lim itation, what happens?

It should be the authors FREE CHOICE to be able to send 2, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 or 40.

DOES ALL the filters have a very slow and painful render and need to wait a lot for it? ABSOLUTELY NOT !

Lots of simple filters, especially photo ones and similar, take just only a few seconds to make the presets, so it will be very few minutes to make 30 or 40 presets and not painful at all.

ARE YOU FORCED TO KEEP LOOKING AT THE SCREEN, SEATING STILL AND DO NOTHING ELSE WHILE THE PRESETS ARE BEING CREATED ?

Absolutely not, and no one is forcing you to do it, you have many alternatives:

You can keep working on any other thing on your computer, FF does not block your computer until it´s finished.

You can go to the internet to make something

You can put FF to submit before going to have lunch or dinner, and when you come back it will be ready.

You can put FF to submit and go and take a walk, or go shopping, or whatever you want that is not related to the computer.

There are many more alternatives, I suposse my point is clear of what I mean

I AGAIN REPEAT THAT I HAVE NOT REQUESTED TO HAVE A LIM IT OF 100 PRESETS !!!

I just want to have ONLY 30 or 40 presets and so the author could CHOOSE how many to add to his own filter creation.

Quote
CAN´T place the presets wh ere you want and ove and re-organize them

EXTREMELY annoying!

Quote
there is NO way to identify and difference the factory given presets fr om your OWN presets

There's a way to identify them. The factory presets have a small white triangle in the corner of the preview. The user presets dont.

Quote
you are always free to DELETE all the presets you do not want, you are NEVER forced to keep ALL the factory presets inside the filter

I don't know if you can delete factory presets (I have never tried), but even if you do, every time you update a filter the factory presets will come back.

Quote
IT DEPENDS ON THE KIND OF FILTER if it is needed 5, 10, 15, 20 or 40 presets

I agree, some filters have many sliders, knobs and dials, so they need more examples as to how they work. Other filters may only have a color control and a slider, and you get the idea with just 3 or 4 presets.

And still, nobody explained to me why ALL the presets need to be rendered on the author's machine while submitting, even though only first 9 presets are shown anywhere, and all the preset must be re-rendered on the user's machine when downloading the filter.

Quote
Morgantao wrote: And still, nobody explained to me why ALL the presets need to be rendered on the author's machine while submitting, even though only first 9 presets are shown anywhere, and all the preset must be re-rendered on the user's machine when downloading the filter.

unfortunatly the rendering was put on the authors computers only when FF3 came on the seen ...... I don't think you will find many author that cheered that decision

Quote
Ghislaine wrote: You are right Carl. 100, 50... is too much. But I agree for 25 or 30 max.

I agree that 50 or 100 is too much, BUT I am very sorry, I do not think that changing fr om 20 to 25 would be good, is ONLY 5 more, it should be at least 30 up to 40, and I personally would prefer 40 better than 30, so there is a freedom of choice to put what you want and let the author decide what he wants to do.

_______________________________________________________________

Quote
Carl wrote: you arbitarly 30 or 40 will that appease the ones who want 100?

No, it will not, BUT please, can you be so kind to tell me how many FF users wants to have 100 presets ?
Are they the greater majority ?

You can´t make happy to everybody so perhaps a middle point would be good 40-50 (although I prefer 40)

Quote
Carl wrote: to upload a filter with one or two preset only and allow FF to randomize the remaining of the nine visible onsite, to me is not putting your filter submission best foot forward and show a lack of pride and care and a waste effort put into creating a filter

Of course this is absolutely true and totally agree, and there are many that only offer 1 or 2 presets and I have downloaded them. And is true that is a lack of pride and care to the final user, and it could be a good filter, but if do not have presets will be a waste.

_______________________________________________________________________

Quote
Morgantao wrote: Quote CAN´T place the presets wh ere you want and re-organize them EXTREMELY annoying!

I totally agree and also find bad that you can´t arrange and place first your most used and favorites, OR put first you own custom presets, or be able to mix them.

Quote
Morgantao wrote: There's a way to identify them. The factory presets have a small white triangle in the corner of the preview. The user presets dont.

Morgantao, perhaps it works well for you, but not for me as I have ALL the presets with exactly the same white triangle in the top right corner, so there is NO difference, at least no my own FF and library.

Please see the screenshot, and this is a filter that you will recognize very well which ones are the factory presets

Quote
Morgantao wrote: SpaceRay, first, let me say that's a fine looking filter you got there

Yes have you already seen it before ?

Quote
Second, it's the other way around.. The factory presets DONT have the white corner, it's the user's presets that have the white corner. The reason you see the wite corner in all the presets is because you made a change to the filter (The picture ovelays), so now it's in your "My filters" folder, which means ALL presets are considered yours, and not factory presets

OPS !!! YES, my fault, Sorry very much, this happens when you DO NOT look what you are doing, I searched for ball pit in FF, and click on the filter, and without knowing I choosed the one that was in the "my filters" folder of the REAL filter inside the FF library, sorry for confusing things

I must look more carefully next time.

Quote
Carl wrote: It appears you cannot delete factory presets, which would mean that I move it to my filters to delete presets, no usage points for authors and more kaos in my hundreds and hundreds of my filters, even more reasons not to have more

Good point. Perhaps if we could arrage the presets the way we like it could solve the problem, or at least if we could hide factory presets....

But I'm not holding my breath till any of the option on this thread come true. My wife would like me to stay alive.

EDIT:
Oh, and seems the submission wizard actually only renders the first 9 presrets + needed maps. So having 9, 19 or 99 presets on your filter wont change the submission time.