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Please help with the most mixed up filter ever.

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Mongoose King
Mongoose King

Posts: 257
Filters: 21


I've had this filter on the go for a long time, it's a very detailed and realistic looking metal panel. It is however, horrendously slow, quite possibly due to the level of detail on it, and possibly because it's construction is rather complex and spaghetti like. I've tried to eliminate as many slow components as I can, I've turned down the details on the noise components as much as I think they can take, but it's still super slow.

Can anyone help out with some tweaks on this monstrosity before I declare it doomed to slowness forever?
My big concern is to preserve the realistic metallic look, I've not managed to get the same effect on any other filters.

Here comes the warning.... upon opening filter editor, you will be confronted with the most hideous sight, it's a very mixed up filter with connections all over the place, so it gets very confused and jumbled. I'm hoping no-one beats me with a stick for creating such an abomination, I promise all my other filters are much more logical, honest!

smile:) Anyway, here it is, any help is very much appreciated.

Steampunk Grunge Panel (3).ffxml
Release the Mongoose!
Posted: February 18, 2012 11:21 am   Details E-Mail
SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12298
Filters: 35
WOW! This is really beautiful and very well done, and as you say very realistic looking.

I have tried it and work not very bad, well is slow, but not so much than others. I would need to have a timed test and really see it render in full resolution and not in reduced preview.

I can´t help in optimization as I do not understand how is built, so I am sorry that I can´t do it, but surely some of the experts FF here could be able probably to understand why this is slow and where is the problem and how to organize the components and find probably another way to make the same.

Wish you all the best and that you can get it, as you deserve it for making this real beauty.

Perhaps the solution is to wait until FF 5.0 when they probably decide to optimize the render engine and make it faster, or until there are affordable much faster computers.
Posted: February 18, 2012 1:17 pm   Details E-Mail
Morgantao
Can't script

Posts: 2185
Filters: 20
Now let's see what the gods of FF come up with smile:D
Posted: February 18, 2012 1:36 pm   Details E-Mail
Ramlyn
Ramlyn

Posts: 2930
Filters: 691
Yes, a bit slow, but great filter! smile:D
Posted: February 18, 2012 2:37 pm   Details E-Mail
CFandM
ForgeSmith

Posts: 4761
Filters: 266
I think the hardest part is going to be re-arranging all the components to what goes where... smile;) smile:)
Stupid things happen to computers for stupid reasons at stupid times!
Posted: February 18, 2012 2:54 pm   Details E-Mail
Mongoose King
Mongoose King

Posts: 257
Filters: 21
Yea, it's a bit jumbled, here's a guide of what the various areas do:



The surface putting together bit is a bit rubbish, I probably should have rearranged it into a nice string like the colour part.

there's a lot of cross over between the different parts though.
Like for example, rivets has to send over to the scratches so the scratches don't run underneath the rivets but stop before the get the the rivet edge, then scratches has to send back to rivets so that the rivets can have scratches on the top of them in the height map, there's all sorts of little details like that. The switches for circle mode make it kinda messy too.
Release the Mongoose!
Posted: February 18, 2012 5:10 pm   Details E-Mail
SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12298
Filters: 35
I have had an idea from your "filter construction"

See this thread here --> http://filterforge.com/forum/read.php?FID=9&TID=9531
Posted: February 18, 2012 10:48 pm   Details E-Mail
SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12298
Filters: 35
Anyone is working on this? smile:)

Or perhaps it too complex and you can´t fix it easily and will need much more time ?

Also would probably be possible to have a similar effect perhaps if this would help to achieve a better and optimized filter, although is true that as it is very well done and very realistic and well thought on the outside (I mean the resulting effect) and the problem is inside the filter and perhaps is like CFandM have already said.

Quote
CFandM wrote

I think the hardest part is going to be re-arranging all the components to what goes where.
Posted: March 9, 2012 8:36 am   Details E-Mail
Indigo Ray
Adam

Posts: 1442
Filters: 82
Mongoose, a tip on labeling: You can add unconnected control components (like the color control) and place them next to each "area". That way, anyone who opens the filter can see the labels.
Posted: March 9, 2012 9:45 am   Details E-Mail
Mongoose King
Mongoose King

Posts: 257
Filters: 21
I've not been doing anything new on it recently, I'm thinking I'll probably try and get a simple way to make a realistic metal look, then redo the filter from scratch.

Been looking at other metal filters, and I think slimy metal plates http://www.filterforge.com/filters/2062.html has the best metal effect on certain settings, while rusty yellow wall http://www.filterforge.com/filters/1383.html has the best rust, although that's a rust under paint look which is a bit different.

I'm not sure if I should ask for it to be submitted despite it's slowness, or leave it until I make a new one. I was hoping someone would be like, oh, this bit here is what's slowing it down, but I suspect it's just the cumulative effect of lots and lots of components and can't be speeded up any more in it's current form..
Release the Mongoose!
Posted: March 9, 2012 9:46 am   Details E-Mail
Sphinx.
Filter Optimizer

Posts: 1750
Filters: 39
Is FF3 ok as target?
Njyldgarkn init/prepare process x no. of render blocks x no. of passes
Posted: March 9, 2012 11:56 am   Details E-Mail
Mongoose King
Mongoose King

Posts: 257
Filters: 21
I've only got FF2 for the forseeable future...
Release the Mongoose!
Posted: March 9, 2012 12:13 pm   Details E-Mail
Morgantao
Can't script

Posts: 2185
Filters: 20
Sphinx, does FF3 have the solution?
Posted: March 9, 2012 12:57 pm   Details E-Mail
SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12298
Filters: 35
Quote
Mongoose King wrote:

I've not been doing anything new on it recently, I'm thinking I'll probably try and get a simple way to make a realistic metal look, then redo the filter from scratch.


Perhaps you can do this but a find a better way but I do not think that you should redo all and start again from scratch and make ALL the work again.

Quote
Mongoose King wrote:
I'm not sure if I should ask for it to be submitted despite it's slowness, or leave it until I make a new one.


Well, I think that probably you should try, because the result looks excellent and very well done, and deserves to be looked, and there is a subjetive topic, HOW MUCH slowness is needed for a filter to be slow and not accepted ?

Quote
Mongoose King wrote:
I was hoping someone would be like, oh, this bit here is what's slowing it down, but I suspect it's just the cumulative effect of lots and lots of components and can't be speeded up any more in it's current form..


As already said before, I think that no one can or want to help you in this because the HARD part is to first organize all the parts and know what is the interaction between all the components.

Perhaps if you want the help of other FF experts would be a good idea that yourself that knows best your own filter could organize, clean and make more easy to find how the filter works and so any other person could SPOT much easier THE BIT that could be slowing it down AND/OR suggest another way to do to something
Posted: March 9, 2012 2:00 pm   Details E-Mail
SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12298
Filters: 35
Quote
Sphinx wrote:
Is FF3 ok as target?
smile:?: smile:?:

could explain a little bit more please ?

Quote
Morgantao wrote:

Sphinx, does FF3 have the solution?


Does FF3 have something new that could help to this filter ? Because as far as I know there are not any special component that is on FF 3 that could be used to make this filtr better, although obviously I am not the one to speak about this because I am not any expert.
Posted: March 9, 2012 2:00 pm   Details E-Mail
Sphinx.
Filter Optimizer

Posts: 1750
Filters: 39
Well, its no good if I start optimizing for FF3 if he uses FF2, thus FF2 is the optimization target.
Njyldgarkn init/prepare process x no. of render blocks x no. of passes
Posted: March 11, 2012 1:21 pm   Details E-Mail
SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12298
Filters: 35
Quote
Sphinx wrote:

Well, its no good if I start optimizing for FF3 if he uses FF2, thus FF2 is the optimization target.


Thanks, now I understand what you mean, and you are right, if you optimize the filter in FF 3.0 and even without adding any new component, it would be considered as a FF 3.0 filter, so it is good to ask as you have done.
Posted: March 11, 2012 4:17 pm   Details E-Mail
SpaceRay
SpaceRay

Posts: 12298
Filters: 35
Quote
Mongoose King wrote:

I've only got FF2 for the forseeable future...


I wish you could be able to upgrade to FF 3.0 soon.

Now until September 4 2012 there is a 55% discount on upgrades, and perhaps you could be able to upgrade, but if even then you can´t afford to do it, I wish you the best to be able to update in the near future in some way.
Posted: August 11, 2012 5:18 pm   Details E-Mail

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